City starts planning to remove more of the Inner Loop (Buffalo: city hall, brokers)
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What he appears to be referring to is the original built environment that connected adjacent neighborhoods to Downtown without the presence of a highway. In turn, that is why he is talking about the development that has occurred in the path/footprint of the former highway.
My family moved to the Rochester area in late December of 1957, as my father's new job began in January of 1958. I was pretty young at the time, but I seem to recall that some of the initial construction of the Inner Loop was beginning around that time. From what I recall, most of that area was commercial, therefore I don't quite understand what the complaint would be, as very few, if any, residential dwellings were torn down, to allow the roadway to be built.
On the other hand, around the same time, I490 was bulldozing it's way westward, from the Thruway in Victor. Since that roadway DID go through what was a residential area, quite a few homes were torn down, along it's path, especially on East Avenue, just east of Winton Road, where the infamous I490 and I590 interchange (the can of worms) was constructed. I recall that several mansions were destroyed, to complete that interchange.
And for that matter, the same could be said for the Route 104 (Keeler Street) expressway, through Irondequoit. A lot of homes were torn down when that roadway was constructed, as the engineers simply drew a fairly straight line through the area, and bulldozed a path.
And, had I390 been completed, according to it's original intended path, paralleling South Clinton Ave, I think THAT would have been more inclined to split the city...
I still think they should have built it though, either as a tunnel, or a surface level boulevard. For the greenees out there, think how much extra fuel is burned doing a loop and driving extra miles.
Also remember that the inner loop was never finish on the east end.
They could have easily built over the top of the inner loop. I still think they should have done it that way
I still think they should have built it though, either as a tunnel, or a surface level boulevard. For the greenees out there, think how much extra fuel is burned doing a loop and driving extra miles.
Also remember that the inner loop was never finish on the east end.
What's ironic about that, is that the state had begun to acquire the land, and remove a number of houses, along South Clinton, between Westfall Road and Highland Avenue. Some VERY elegant and stately homes along Highland were torn down. This was in the late 1960s, and the land still remains vacant.
What really put the brakes on the project, was when the owner of the fairly new (at the time) apartments on the west side of Clinton, sued the state, to either prevent his complex from being demolished, or getting far more than market value for it. He dragged the state through the courts, for so long, that it gave the "neighborhood association", further north on Clinton, time to gather steam and jump on the bandwagon, against the continuation of the road. I remember reading that the guy even bragged about what he did, as he knew about the proposed expressway, but he built the apartments anyway.
I'm not sure what you mean about the east end of the Inner Loop not being completed. The only section I remember being a "little sketchy", was around Union Street and Monroe Avenue.....
What's ironic about that, is that the state had begun to acquire the land, and remove a number of houses, along South Clinton, between Westfall Road and Highland Avenue. Some VERY elegant and stately homes along Highland were torn down. This was in the late 1960s, and the land still remains vacant.
What really put the brakes on the project, was when the owner of the fairly new (at the time) apartments on the west side of Clinton, sued the state, to either prevent his complex from being demolished, or getting far more than market value for it. He dragged the state through the courts, for so long, that it gave the "neighborhood association", further north on Clinton, time to gather steam and jump on the bandwagon, against the continuation of the road. I remember reading that the guy even bragged about what he did, as he knew about the proposed expressway, but he built the apartments anyway.
I'm not sure what you mean about the east end of the Inner Loop not being completed. The only section I remember being a "little sketchy", was around Union Street and Monroe Avenue.....
As I recall, they were fighting 390 passing over parts of Genesee Valley Park. Once that got approved, they abandoned the Clinton ave corridor project.
What I mean about the east end not being completed, you needed to get off of 490 at Goodman, then take Broadway to get to the IL. I believe it was going to tie in to 490 along with the 390 tie in.
As I recall, they were fighting 390 passing over parts of Genesee Valley Park. Once that got approved, they abandoned the Clinton ave corridor project.
What I mean about the east end not being completed, you needed to get off of 490 at Goodman, then take Broadway to get to the IL. I believe it was going to tie in to 490 along with the 390 tie in.
I think that we're sort of saying the same thing, with minor differences. 390 was originally destined to head north, past Brighton-Henrietta Town Line road, where it presently splits, including what you're saying about the Broadway link to the Inner Loop. I was in high school between 1966 and 1970, at McQuaid. The planned route for 390 ran right across from the school, and the land was being cleared during the time I was there. This was several years before the completion of the Outer Loop, through Genesee Valley Park.
While the link between 590 on the east, and 390 on the west was planned, but held up for the reason you mentioned, it was finally completed around the late 70s, if I recall correctly. Had the northern leg of 390 gone on as planned, because it didn't involve the park, they still could have run it north, and connected with 490, somewhere near where Field Street and Monroe Avenue intersect, and possibly connect with Broadway. However, the 390/590 "hook up" was actually part of the Outer Loop, rather than the Inner Loop.
The Inner Loop, on it's north western side, crossed the river, then split, near Broad Street, with one leg going west, on to 490, while the other leg headed back east, on to 490, and over the Troup-Howell Bridge, then an exit ramp to the east end of the Inner Loop, completing the "loop".
Anyway, as we now know, the "downtown" of the "good old days", collapsed, and yes, today the Inner Loop may have become obsolete....
I have one question. For all of these apartments that are being created, where are the residents going to shop? Yes, I'm an admitted "old timer", and still can recall the time when downtown Rochester had several large department stores, Midtown Plaza had a supermarket (and Sibley's had a grocery department, too), and there were even (gasp!!) a number of car dealers, right in the heart of the city. Assuming that all of these apartment buildings are filled up, how are the residents going to survive?
I have one question. For all of these apartments that are being created, where are the residents going to shop? Yes, I'm an admitted "old timer", and still can recall the time when downtown Rochester had several large department stores, Midtown Plaza had a supermarket (and Sibley's had a grocery department, too), and there were even (gasp!!) a number of car dealers, right in the heart of the city. Assuming that all of these apartment buildings are filled up, how are the residents going to survive?
I was thinking the same thing. The apartment buildings look like they could have been built in the suburbs. If you listen to the "experts" they would tell us that there needs to be retail on the first floor, office on the second and apartments above that. I don't think they are filling up, and so any expansion, like filling in the northern part would be wasteful. As well that section as is serves the region well as a transportation corridor.
There was the Harts grocery store, that lasted a couple of years, as well as Wegmans was there for a long time. Downtown should be able to support some form of grocery. I wonder if the east Ave Wegmans had a negative effect on Harts.
I was totally against tearing down Midtown. I would have preferred they kept most of the structure, and create a non vehicle streetscape inside of it in just the manner I stated above.
^I think a lot of the infill of the former Loop path is to bring the original grid back and for more urban development.
Also, given that it is the eastern portion of the Loop removed, that means more density around/near the East End and connecting it to the SE Quadrant.
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