Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There's no question that property values have increased dramatically over the past couple of years. It's not only the city. It's everywhere. There's another thread on here about how hot the housing market is, so it should be no surprise. In a fast moving market, prices get inflated rapidly.
You also need to consider that Rochester's neighborhoods have had a lot of infill development. When those houses cost $400,000 to build, and you live on that street, you can expect your taxes to rise. One thing the city could do is stop mandating union wages. That would save a lot on construction.
But once again, the thing that would solve this once and for all is more good paying jobs. Give people dignity and really be able to enjoy your own, unsubsidized home.
I think what also has to be considered is the age of the housing and that many of the homeowners are seniors. If anything, if infill is needed, current value would be relatively lower due to gaps in the built environment/neighborhood fabric. This could also impact working folks that are homeowners. So, there are homeowners that are likely working or are retired that did work. In turn, that is a concern as those retired may not be able to age in place and those that work(whether service or multiple jobs, etc.), may forclose due to assessments increasing too fast.
This isn’t to say jobs aren’t needed, but there may be certain populations of homeowners that are more impacted than others.
.............But once again, the thing that would solve this once and for all is more good paying jobs. Give people dignity and really be able to enjoy your own, unsubsidized home.
I agree. In my "bass-ackward" way of looking at things, I think more decent paying jobs in the area would mean more cash available for potential buyers. That, in turn, would be an incentive for home builders to build more homes, which would ease the crunch.....
I agree. In my "bass-ackward" way of looking at things, I think more decent paying jobs in the area would mean more cash available for potential buyers. That, in turn, would be an incentive for home builders to build more homes, which would ease the crunch.....
No, you're exactly right. I believe it was you who earlier wrote that it was jobs that brought people here originally. Everyone paid market rate for their homes, and there were plenty of new ones being built. The whole machine worked fine, as people lived within their means.
It was only a few decades ago, when the government started to "level the playing table". That hasn't worked, and the only "solution" they can come up with is more of the failed policy that created this problem. We're going backwards, as more and more are on some type of support.
No, you're exactly right. I believe it was you who earlier wrote that it was jobs that brought people here originally. Everyone paid market rate for their homes, and there were plenty of new ones being built. The whole machine worked fine, as people lived within their means.
It was only a few decades ago, when the government started to "level the playing table". That hasn't worked, and the only "solution" they can come up with is more of the failed policy that created this problem. We're going backwards, as more and more are on some type of support.
Well, to go back, the city did have an issue with migrants from the South that came to to the city into neighborhoods with less than quality housing stock and said people could only live in select parts of the city, let alone the area. It was similar in regards to certain types of employment as well. So, there has always been an issue with housing and workers at different levels to some degree within the city/area.
Also, you are conflating that the issue is that these people are living in subsidized homes, when in many cases, these are people of various backgrounds that are living in relatively market rate homes based on their location. So, it doesn't make sense to say that all of these people are living in subsidized homes, when many of the homes you are referring to haven't been built or are a small fraction of homes in the city and the issue likely involves long time home owners.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 02-19-2024 at 01:01 AM..
Well, to go back, the city did have an issue with migrants from the South that came to to the city into neighborhoods with less than quality housing stock and said people could only live in select parts of the city, let alone the area. It was similar in regards to certain types of employment as well. So, there has always been an issue with housing and workers at different levels to some degree within the city/area.
Also, you are conflating that the issue is that these people are living in subsidized homes, when in many cases, these are people of various backgrounds that are living in relatively market rate homes based on their location. So, it doesn't make sense to say that all of these people are living in subsidized homes, when many of the homes you are referring to haven't been built or are a small fraction of homes in the city and the issue likely involves long time home owners.
This isn't 1965, but yeah, there was mass migration to the north because of the social programs. They weren't coming for work, they were coming to benefit from someone else's work, and it continues today.
I don't know where you're talking about specifically, regarding to less than quality housing stock. Please explain.
Kodak and Xerox were in growth mode, and Joe Wilson, CEO of Xerox said they would hire "more than our fair share" of minorities, and they did.
This isn't 1965, but yeah, there was mass migration to the north because of the social programs. They weren't coming for work, they were coming to benefit from someone else's work, and it continues today.
I don't know where you're talking about specifically, regarding to less than quality housing stock. Please explain.
Kodak and Xerox were in growth mode, and Joe Wilson, CEO of Xerox said they would hire "more than our fair share" of minorities, and they did.
Nope, it is called for job opportunities and to get away from Jim Crow. If anything, many southern states would also send people north, because there wasn't work in those states at the time. Sounds very familiar.
As for housing stock, look at the video starting around 43 minutes in.
As for Joe Wilson, that was later in the game after the Detroit Riots in 1967, but as time went on, things improved on that front. Hence this foundation: https://wilsonfdn.org/
Nope, it is called for job opportunities and to get away from Jim Crow. If anything, many southern states would also send people north, because there wasn't work in those states at the time. Sounds very familiar.
As for housing stock, look at the video starting around 43 minutes in.
As for Joe Wilson, that was later in the game after the Detroit Riots in 1967, but as time went on, things improved on that front. Hence this foundation: https://wilsonfdn.org/
So there was a couple of substandard places. Not uncommon back then. Even new houses back then had minimum insulation, and maybe 1 electric outlet per room. Single pain windows. What troubles me is all the trash all over the place. I really can't grasp people complaining about their living conditions, while something so simple as picking up trash, or not putting it there in the first place prevails. 100% within their control.
This further shows that it's not about the money. It's the mindset that that makes someone a success, or failure. And when you have apologists offering something for nothing, you are being groomed for failure. Why do city leaders do that, knowing that they can invest the same money in a factory and create an income stream instead?
So there was a couple of substandard places. Not uncommon back then. Even new houses back then had minimum insulation, and maybe 1 electric outlet per room. Single pain windows. What troubles me is all the trash all over the place. I really can't grasp people complaining about their living conditions, while something so simple as picking up trash, or not putting it there in the first place prevails. 100% within their control.
This further shows that it's not about the money. It's the mindset that that makes someone a success, or failure. And when you have apologists offering something for nothing, you are being groomed for failure. Why do city leaders do that, knowing that they can invest the same money in a factory and create an income stream instead?
Well, I don't know if it was just a couple of places, but with redlining, the stock was usually viewed as being substandard for various reasons and even before the time of the video: https://dsl.richmond.edu/panorama/re....1641/-77.5996
I also think that the investment has to also come from the private sector in terms of thinking it is worthwhile to expand or set up shop in an area. Even then, a lot of times they need something like a subsidy from the government(look at the new announcement for Global Foundries in the Upstate economy thread) to do so. So, both sectors go hand and hand. I suggest checking out the YouTube video Free To Choose from 1978 on the reelblack channel, which touches on this theme that you touch on quite a bit.
To bring it back to the assessment topic, here is a D &C article from 4 days ago about the big increases...
"Miriam Cortez's forehead is coated with ashes in the shape of a cross outside Rochester's City Hall. It's Ash Wednesday, and the city's preliminary property reassessments have the senior citizen stressed.
She worried about a tax increase and how she'd afford food and medicine.
"It is a city government overreach," said Clay Harris, founder of Uniting and Healing through Hope of Monroe County.
Harris organized the press conference on a sunny Wednesday afternoon. "We're here today to shine a brighter light like the sun is shining today, on this injustice for this reassessment," he said.
Since the 1980s, Rochester has reassessed property values every four years.
"It's a good time period to really capture the market activity," city assessor Mike Zazzara said.
The assessments are based on the real estate market. 2024's reassessments saw property values increase in every one of Rochester's 132 neighborhoods, and some residents were stunned at the numbers. Initial evaluations of residential properties increased by an average of 68.4%.
2020's reassessment saw a 19.3% bump by comparison, even though the real estate market has been "very strong since 2018," according to Mike Zazzara.
The city and surrounding region have regularly been ranked among the nation's hottest real estate markets over the past six years. Realtor.com said that the Rochester area ranked as the hottest housing market in the country in September 2022 and August 2023.
"One can argue that it's just happening to us, but it's not; it's everywhere," deputy city assessor Enza Mineo said.
How much are houses in Rochester NY?
Since the onset of the pandemic, there has been a significant surge in the median price of homes sold by real estate agents. Experts say this increase can be attributed to a confluence of factors, including historically low interest rates, the desire of families to find more space during quarantine, and the lack of stock due to supply chain challenges.
Collectively, these elements contribute to an exceedingly robust housing market, leading to a dramatic rise in property values.
Despite those factors, when city residents opened their mail and got the news, they immediately began to call city hall. "Almost 10,000 people have called in," city council member Willie Lightfoot said.
The city says it has scheduled more than 5,000 appointments, and the assessment office is averaging 50 calls a day.
Lightfoot, along with councilmembers Stanley Martin, Mary Lupien and Kim Smith, penned a letter to Mayor Malik Evans urging a pause in the current round of assessments for a minimum of two years. They cited mounting apprehension among city residents regarding their property valuations and criticized the current process for its perceived lack of transparency.
"Our number one issue is process," Lightfoot said. "This process was not fair, it was not equitable, and it was insensitive."
The letter goes on to say: "We are respectfully requesting that any new assessment be delayed for a period of two years so we can work together to find an amicable solution. "This pause will also allow time for the turbulent real estate market, encumbered by high costs and soaring interest rates, to settle. Many of the City residents most affected by the ongoing assessment are seniors, many of whom live on fixed income. For this demographic, significant change in property assessments may directly affect quality of life and the ability to keep the heat on and food on the table."
'I want to leave something for my family'
Homeowners like Beverly Wood fear the generational impact of the reassessment.
"I want to leave something for my family. I can't do that if my house is gone."
The city's finance director, Kim Jones, views the reassessment differently. "It's a way to build generation wealth," Jones said. "It's not our intent to take people's homes; we're trying to distribute the tax burden proportionately."
Jones emphasized that increasing assessments doesn't automatically translate to higher taxes.
If a property assessment is higher than the 68% average hike, the property owner will "most likely" see higher taxes; if it's lower than the average, the owner will "most likely" see a decrease, according to Mike Zazzara.
"A change in taxes does not reflect any exemptions on the property, including senior exemption," Zazzara said. "It's a great thing for property owners. They're gaining wealth and equity."
Councilmember Kim Smith says she and her colleagues asking for a pause reached out to a city official in Buffalo who said the financial burden that the city's reassessments placed on its residents caused the city to re-think how it rolled out its tax increases.
Smith is concerned that assessments could worsen the dual housing and homeless crisis if landlords raise rents in response to higher tax burdens. "The long-term impact of this is that people will be priced out of their homes," she said.
In response to the request to pause the reassessment by the four councilmembers, Mayor Malik Evans reinforced that "an increase in property values does not automatically result in an increase in property taxes, as the tax levy formula will be impacted by the city's overall increase in property values."
Evans said, "Delaying this year's quadrennial reassessment is not a sound approach and will have unintended consequences. A delay would put me in a position of ignoring current market values, which would actually negatively impact homeowners who would otherwise receive a tax decrease and could shift the tax burden to homeowners."
What does the tax base growth mean?
Finance director Kim Jones said credit rating agencies would negatively rate Rochester if the city's tax base doesn't grow.
"This helps the city in more ways than we can imagine," deputy assessor Enza Mineo said.
The credit agency decision translates to whether interest rates increase or decrease for taxpayers and impacts the funds available for capital projects, so city officials see the 68.4% average increase as a win despite the public outrage.
"People are terrified," Alexander Pheonix, who lives in the JOSANA neighborhood, expressed. "There's a lot of confusion."
Councilmember Willie Lightfoot said the council will have its input on the issue when they vote on the tax levy. Until then, he wants people to make their voices heard by attending Thursday's speak-to-council session.
"Your voice matters," he said. "We need you to fight today; there is no tomorrow."
As mentioned in the last video by Willie Lightfoot, I think the issue is also the lack of communication about the topic to homeowners as well.
^^^bla, bla, bla. None of this would mater if people had a decent job, and were self sufficient. It's just crazy how government creates problems, just so they can act relevant, and all the while churning through billions of taxpayer money.
^^^bla, bla, bla. None of this would mater if people had a decent job, and were self sufficient. It's just crazy how government creates problems, just so they can act relevant, and all the while churning through billions of taxpayer money.
You are talking about a totally different topic…
What about those that are retired that have a real concern about getting priced out? I think the issue does come down to proper communication of what the increase means and to let people know that they can contest the assessment, if they feel it too high.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
