Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Self-Sufficiency and Preparedness
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-01-2009, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,223,704 times
Reputation: 16752

Advertisements

I'd suggest that you be careful assuming that you're dealing in "Dollars" when you're trading securities - Federal Reserve Notes (aka "dollar bills").
A unit dollar is a silver coin, and a one ounce gold coin was equivalent to 20 unit dollars. In 1933, the Congress repudiated their promise to redeem their notes with lawful money. In short, they went bust, were reorganized, and shortly thereafter instituted "voluntary" national socialism, via FICA / Social Security Act of 1935.

References:
"Dollars, or units; each to be of the value of a Spanish milled as the same is now current, and to contain three hundred and seventy-one grains and four-sixteenths parts of a grain of pure, or four hundred and sixteen grains of standard, silver."
"Eagles—each to be of the value of ten dollars or units, and to contain two hundred and forty-seven grains and four eighths of a grain of pure, or two hundred and seventy grains of standard gold."
--- Sec. 9, Coinage Act of 1792, April 2, 1792
($10 Eagle had 1/2 troy ounce gold)

According to Title 31 of the U.S. code, a silver dollar complies with the original Coinage Act.
Title 31 USC Sec. 5112. Denominations, specifications, and design of coins
(e)(1) ...weight 31.103 grams;
(e)(4) have inscriptions ... 1 Oz. Fine Silver ... One Dollar
(Troy ounce = 480 grains or 31.103 grams.)

Note: Millesimal fineness is a system of denoting the purity of silver. "Fine Silver" is .999, which is a higher purity than specified in the original law. However, .900 is equivalent to "Coin silver" in the USA, also known as one nine fine. That makes the 1 ounce coin in harmony with 416 grains of "standard silver".
(416/480 = .866666; or rounded up to .9)


In contrast, 'dollar bills' are not lawful money, nor were they ever 'backed' by gold.
TITLE 12, UNITED STATES CODE, CHAPTER 3, SUBCHAPTER XII,sec. 411. Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption
" Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be OBLIGATIONS of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in LAWFUL MONEY on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank."
FRNs are obligations of the U.S. government to pay lawful money on demand.
LAWFUL MONEY - "The terms 'lawful money' and 'lawful money of the United States' shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States..."
Title 12 United States Code, Sec. 152.
Federal Reserve Notes are issued under the authority of Art 1 Sec 8 power to borrow on the credit of the United States.
Article 1, Section 8. U.S. Constitution.
The Congress shall have Power ...To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
(No, Congress does not have the power to CREATE money. If it did, why would it need to BORROW it?)
"Federal reserve notes are legal tender in absence of objection thereto."
MacLeod v. Hoover (1925) 159 La 244, 105 So. 305
Before 1935, Americans could object to the tender of FRNs. After 1935, "human resources" could no longer object.

Due to the State of Emergency, declared in 1933, by FDR, the government has been operating under reorganization due to bankruptcy. Thanks to the 'human resources', the IMF and World Bank extend "special drawing rights" so the U.S. Congress can "kite checks". The yearly interest on the public debt is already greater than the whole sum spent fighting WW2. And in 2007 and 2008, Congress borrowed MORE than it paid in interest.
Isn't that what Bernard Madoff did?

The con is on... we've been swindled.
And since "we" volunteered, via FICA, the government excuses itself from blame.

U.S. National Debt Clock
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 01 Jun 2009 at 10:15:33 PM GMT is:

The estimated population of the United States is 306,290,198
so each socialist's share of this debt is $37,000.99.


And that debt cannot be paid with Federal Reserve Notes (debt instruments) because a debt cannot pay a debt. Minus plus minus is more minus.

In terms of lawful money, that sum computes to:
564 billion ounces of gold, stamped into dollars, or
8.4 trillion ounces of silver, stamped into dollars.

BTW :
Gold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
At the end of 2006, it was estimated that all the gold ever mined
totaled 158,000 tonnes.
1 tonnes = 35,273.9619 ounces (avoirdupois)
World Gold supply = 5,573,285,980.2 ounces
(5.5 billion ounces)

But the U.S. legally owes 564.5 billion ounces.
UH OH!
And Fort Knox Gold Depository only has about 147 million ounces in the vault.

Somebody is going to get it - - -

I repeat: In 2007 and 2008, Congress borrowed MORE than it paid in debt service (interest) - which is what Bernie Madoff was accused of doing - paying old investors with money taken from new investors.
When THAT scam is finally exposed, and no one buys gubmint debt, then the Ponzi scheme collapses.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-01-2009, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,050 posts, read 34,619,609 times
Reputation: 10617
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
The estimated population of the United States is 306,290,198
so each socialist's share of this debt is $37,000.99.


And that debt cannot be paid with Federal Reserve Notes (debt instruments) because a debt cannot pay a debt. Minus plus minus is more minus.

In terms of lawful money, that sum computes to:
564 billion ounces of gold, stamped into dollars, or
8.4 trillion ounces of silver, stamped into dollars.
Well, it doesn't get any more fascinating than that. My share is $37,000.99 and I can only pay a debt in lawful money...but at the same time, I do not have any lawful money by the official definition. I guess I'll just have to hope that the government decides not to call in their chips.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2009, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Charleston, WV
3,106 posts, read 7,378,694 times
Reputation: 845
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
My bunker is in foreign stocks, gold, and certain investments not touchable by uncle sam. Better than any millennium bunker that could be made.
Under my mattress sounds even better. But I better go shopping for a bigger mattress - gonna take a lot more dollars if Zimbabwe-type inflation hits.

Which, BTW, some think it will. No wonder Nancy and Timmy flew to China to beg for their help.

Quote:
The U.S. economy will enter “hyperinflation†approaching the levels in Zimbabwe because the Federal Reserve will be reluctant to raise interest rates, investor Marc Faber said U.S. Inflation to Approach Zimbabwe Level, Faber Says (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
Quote:
Prices may increase at rates “close to†Zimbabwe’s gains, Faber said in an interview with Bloomberg Television in Hong Kong. Zimbabwe’s inflation rate reached 231 million percent in July, the last annual rate published by the statistics office. U.S. Inflation to Approach Zimbabwe Level, Faber Says (Update2) - Bloomberg.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2009, 08:23 PM
 
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,621 posts, read 12,739,791 times
Reputation: 20050
buy bullion and bury it in a long pvc pipe!!!!! and throw little nails and screws and pennies around to confuse metal detectors..yep buy gold now!!!! diamonds are going to crash.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2009, 07:57 AM
 
1,535 posts, read 1,635,048 times
Reputation: 385

INO Equities Stocks Indexes - U.S $ INDEX (NYBOTX) Price Chart and Quote

1 month value of the dollar shows the direction we are heading,. the stock market is a suckers ralley. The 80 cents was broken downward only one other time, in 30 years that should be telling a tale of it's own.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2009, 08:01 AM
 
5,165 posts, read 6,056,691 times
Reputation: 1072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
maybe it's going up because they keep dropping the bankrupt companies from the Dow and replacing them with profitable ones.
The Dow is a poor measure. Most astute finanicers use the S & P 500.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2009, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,059 posts, read 12,977,938 times
Reputation: 1401
My foreign stocks aren't even rising in value, yet the balance increases by a nice clip everyday. Doesn't mean I'm richer though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2009, 08:03 AM
 
1,535 posts, read 1,635,048 times
Reputation: 385
INO Equities Stocks Indexes - U.S $ INDEX (NYBOTX) Price Chart and Quote
Here is the Jan 07 to July 09 chart, the government has been working hard to keep the value of the dollar up. Did I mention there was an Presidental Election during the time the value of the dollar went up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2009, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,676,684 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
maybe it's going up because they keep dropping the bankrupt companies from the Dow and replacing them with profitable ones.
Only GM and C have been dropped since last year.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2009, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,817,470 times
Reputation: 24863
Personally I do not care if I buy the necessities in gold, silver, or FRNs. So long as the grocer and the gas stations take the money I am OK.

What I do object to is the continuous decrease in the value of the dollars because the increase in my wages is less then the decrease in value. If the dollar amount of my wages increased as fast as or faster than the value dropped I would not care about inflation. We need interest rates high enough to let us save instead of borrow the money we need.

If I read one post correctly there is not enough silver of gold on the planet to make sufficient Legal Money to replace the FRN’s. So what?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Self-Sufficiency and Preparedness
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top