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I see I jumped the gun, after reading all the pages, so my friends are 98% not 100, since they must sell items to pay taxes.
Over all this is a pretty decent thread. Refrigeration can be 98% too with a heated evaporator and consenser of some sort, it needs not have electricity.
It still works that way here thankfully. As my Uncle said last fall, "if a farmer can help another farmer today, they damn well better do it, because there may be a day when that farmer needs something".
We don't always get along, but we do always try to work together.
No truer words ever spoken. I relocated to a ranching community, and that is exactly how it goes here.
The reason you don't see more of it is too many people turn it into a one-way street by only utilizing what is in it for them.
EXAMPLE------a guy asks to borrow a cattle trailer and after a few times of returning , keeps it at his place and tells the owner to call in advance if the owner wants to use it.
EXAMPLE----guy borrows hay rake and brings it back. Owner finds out what parts are broken when he wants to rake his hay.
EXAMPLE----neighbor tells farmer, lets pick corn together since neither of us have help ( school time) . After 1st farmer gets his corn picked, he tells 2nd farmer to wait a few days to pick so he can get his corn ground plowed.
Yup,--working together--requires 2 like minded people who realize it's a 2-way street.
One problem with the lifestyle of rural dwellers of a century or so ago is that they didn't have much in the way of health care, I'm not real eager to "authentically kick the bucket" if there is a modern remedy.
On the contrary, except for a much higher mortality rate at childbirth, I'd offer that back then there actually WAS REAL HEALTHCARE. They had homeopathy and vitamins and herbs that actually REVERSED chronic and degenerative diseases. If people got thru early childhood, chances are they lived a long healthy live well into their 70's 80's 90's or 100's and died healthy in their sleep.
Today in the United States anyway (perhaps not so much in Europe and Asia where it is still available on a level playing field with Orthodox Allopathic Western Medicine-drugs and surgery) good old fashioned healthcare is shunned. We are brainwashed to think that it is better to live with our disease which is all those who practice western medicine know how to do -- help us live with our disease by covering up the symptoms with drugs we are supposed to take for the rest of our lives once diagnosed with a condition. Rather than like what Naturopathic Doctors know how to do which is to determine the CAUSE of the disease and then helping the patient get rid of the cause which then of course eliminates the disease altogether. This is what doctors did in colonial and victorian times and before---during times BEFORE there was any such thing as heart disease and when cancer incidents were one in 1000. There was no such thing as ADD or Acid Reflux disease or you name it. They used simple SAFE remedies and diet to eliminate these problems.
Granted for ACUTE conditons such as injuries, we have much better treatment available. But for Chronic conditions, I would argue it was MUCH better than it is today in this country anyway. Back then nobody or very few (maybe those who died in surgery) died because of their medical treatment. Today it is the leading cause of death where over 700,000 die ever year based on only 20% of reported incidents. It is probably REALLY around 1% of our population per year that die just following their medical doctors advice. Don't take my word for it. Just go to the Life Extension Foundation website (.org) and do a search "Death by Medicine" and you'll see the 30 page reports researched by doctors no less.
By the way, I think this thread is very interesting...just had to step in and offer that at least for chronic and degenerative diseases, "back in the day" was a lot better than it is today in many respects.
Regarding another issue that some of you bring up which is not being able to sell food that you don't need without going through all the government red tape (which by the way we need to get RID of in 2010 by cleaning house in Washington), one thing that could facilitate helping people get what they need and sell what they don't need are barter exchanges that would eliminate the one to one disadvantage of trying to trade with another person who may want what you have but you don't want what he has. I worked for one in the early 80's during the last recession and it was quite beneficial for members. The trade exchange brought members new customers that they didn't already have and gave the members trade dollars for the sale of their items that they could in turn spend on what they wanted within the national exchange. TRading was simplified through the use of a credit/debit card. No cash was involved except to join the exchange. You could get anything from food to liquor to building supplies and hardware and electronics to insurance, travel dining at restaurants and advertising.
You do have some valid points, and recently I watched a presentation by a cardiologist that mentioned your point that the shorter life span in the past was mostly driven by infant mortality - if you made it to 5 in 1885, you stood about the same chances as we do today to make it to 70, 80, or more.
A lot of "pill based" medicine today probably does as much harm as good. And I have read that medical mistakes kill more people than a lot of things that people get much more worked up about, like gunshot wounds.
But modern trauma care is way better than what existed 100 years ago. Back then if you fell off your horse right, or got shot, well you were done. Now you can be beat up worse in a car/tractor/bike wreck and still be put right.
You do have some valid points, and recently I watched a presentation by a cardiologist that mentioned your point that the shorter life span in the past was mostly driven by infant mortality - if you made it to 5 in 1885, you stood about the same chances as we do today to make it to 70, 80, or more.
A lot of "pill based" medicine today probably does as much harm as good. And I have read that medical mistakes kill more people than a lot of things that people get much more worked up about, like gunshot wounds.
But modern trauma care is way better than what existed 100 years ago. Back then if you fell off your horse right, or got shot, well you were done. Now you can be beat up worse in a car/tractor/bike wreck and still be put right.
True. Acute care is much better now. However, little do people realize that the leading cause of death in this country is western medicine where based on only 20% of reported incidents in 2006 nearly 800,000 people died. The vast majority of these people were following doctors orders (no errors occured) and they died from their treatment not from the disease being treated. To see the studies done by medical doctors themselves, with statistics taken from the most recognized medical journals, go to Life Extension dot org and search for "Death by Medicine". If people had a clue in this country, rather than run to their medical doctor at the first sign of an ache or pain, they'd seek out every other less invasive alternative before-hand and use Western Medicine only as a last resort.
Needless to say if the Obama administration and our elected officials really cared about their constituents and weren't so easily influenced by lobbyists from the medical establishment- (who are the only ones who will benefit from Obamacare), they would have first read these studies and concluded that forcing western medicine on Americans does them no good. There should at least have been a provision to waive the coverage and pay no penalty if this is your choice- especially considering the so called "health care" which is nothing more than disease care (to help one live with their disease and cover up the symptoms of the disease for as long as possible while making as much money as possible from the ongoing treatments), does more to harm Americans that it does to help them.
Needless to say if the Obama administration and our elected officials really cared about their constituents and weren't so easily influenced by lobbyists from the medical establishment- (who are the only ones who will benefit from Obamacare), they would have first read these studies and concluded that forcing western medicine on Americans does them no good. There should at least have been a provision to waive the coverage and pay no penalty if this is your choice- especially considering the so called "health care" which is nothing more than disease care (to help one live with their disease and cover up the symptoms of the disease for as long as possible while making as much money as possible from the ongoing treatments), does more to harm Americans that it does to help them.
Completely agree with this. It's essentially the main reason I'm so bitter about this health care bill/law thing (in addition to the fact it's highly unconstitutional in my opinion). I have nothing patently against modern medicine, but my attitude is pretty much like yours--it should not be looked at as 'messianic' and certainly should not be forced upon those who turn to alternative methods first (I'm one of those types). I agree with you that in many cases, the cure is more harmful than the malady.
I don't completely shun our modern medical technology, I just prefer to use it very, very... very sparingly. I can count on one hand the number of times I've had even an aspirin in the last ten years--I'm not into chemicals. I don't abuse my body; I try to get exercise, sufficient sleep, and keep a healthy mind by using it constantly. My first defense for disease/discomfort is my own body's immune system/ability to heal and a positive attitude. Millions of years of evolution has provided my body with the ability to fight off quite a number of sicknesses on its own. If it turns out that it needs some help to fight something off, I'll look to 'traditional' remedies our great grandparents might have used, and then possibly something in our modern medical arsenal if nothing else is working and it's going to take too long for my body to fight it off.
I think I’m a little late to the party and things seem to have gone a little off track, but here's my two cents.
My husband and I have the same views on Self Sufficiency. We do not like the direction society is going in nor do we where the next generation is going to take it or that we've lost touch with our roots.
Sure, technology is great and the convenience of Super Wal-Mart is amazing- but it's made us lazy. I for one don't like keeping in touch with my family through Facebook... I have the ability to get up out of my pillow top bed, turn on the water and take a hot shower, get dressed in my fancy threads and jump in my 40,000 SUV and drive 5 minutes to Super Wal-Mart and pick up everything I need and then some at 1/2 the price I would any were else. But I can do this (or did) because I accept it. Society has accepted it. Then there are the hand full of us that choose not to accept it. We can be classified as nut jobs or hippies- regardless of what you call us, we choose not to accept your Starbucks ways, and rightfully so!
When I first got engaged my husband brought up the idea of becoming self sufficient and moving to the country. To his amazement I was all for it. I had given it much through before but was ridiculed. My advice is that the internet is going to be your best resource for this- ironic huh? I've spent years researching, printing articles, buying books- all to learn how to live without the tools we have now. It takes time and dedication. There are people out there with the knowledge and they're dying off. My family is from rural Spain; back where they are 100% self sufficient because that's the way they've been doing since as far back as they can remember.
I took this on and treated it like a project for work. I set guidelines, goals, topics and so on. Then I wrote myself a book and it looked great on paper, sounded great too... but our bodies are not used to the intense labor it takes to do these things. How do I know? Try living on a farm for a little while where the inhabitants do this day in and day out. They don't have TV, they don't have cell phones and internet- yeah right. You almost don't know what to do with your self after a while. And even after I had done all of that research- there was still so much to learn. (I learned to knit in 1 day). Hard work doesn't even begin to scratch the surface.
To address the tax and government part of the discussion. They're not going away so the best way to do this is to be low key. My husband is a welder and works 3 or 4 months out of the year making the income we need for taxes and supplies. The area in which you live is a big factor too. Your local feed shop isn't going to force regulations on you because he knows you. Trade and Barter are still real things in tight knit communities, you just have to find them and ease your way in. Your best bet is to find a town that has voted out Wal-Mart and go from there.
My suggestion to you is to do your research and take the Self Sufficient approach in phases. Just get there first. Decide, after you've read all of this, that you still want to move forward and take the plunge. Then slowly wean yourself off of your addictions to modern society. We took a 5 phase approach- phase 5 being 100% off of the grid. (Phase 5 is mainly reserved for when the crap hits the fan and we don't want anything to do with it.) Currently we're in Phase 2- The area where we are at just doesn't support our needs so we're scratching it and starting over- still trying to find the right town which in my experience will make it or break it.
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