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Hey Scirocco...culture shock...well...we thought that this part of Utah might work for us...we are Californians who are very, very inactive LDS. The only thing LDS about us is we are still on the church records. That is it. What I am especially having problems with is that almost everything here IS governed by religion. Unless it's a national chain, no restaurants open on Sundays, no car dealers, no shops, except limited hrs at the mall, which is very small anyway. Tired of going to restaurants and having a glass of wine and getting glared at. By strangers. I think most of it is our problem, someone else could probably ignore it better. We are homesick so that has a lot to do with it. But don't come here and expect it to be like anywhere else. It's not. We do have beautiful scenery, if hubby and I were more physically able to it would be a great place for hikes and camping...we have some physical problems so that is pretty much out for us. Another plus about St. George area is lots of golf, tennis and only 1 1/2 hrs to Vegas! I now wish we had rented here first before we bought...maybe I would suggest that to anyone non LDS moving here.
What I am especially having problems with is that almost everything here IS governed by religion. Unless it's a national chain, no restaurants open on Sundays, no car dealers, no shops, except limited hrs at the mall, which is very small anyway.
I'm lost; what is the problem with businesses being closed on Sunday? What's wrong with conducting business on the other six days? I don't see where religion governs this practice. It is the owner who makes this decision.
I can remember when all businesses were closed on Sundays in California and one certainly cannot say California is even remotely religious. It was a business decision based on customer preference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmom
I think most of it is our problem, someone else could probably ignore it better.
I applaud you fo this statement. You are correct. Since you are no longer active LDS, the dominant LDS values are probably an annoyance to you. I qualify this statement by citing my own experience. I am active LDS and I find the California lifestyle more than annoying, so I am fleeing to Utah.
Hi Sergeant, yes it is probably more bothersome to us than to others...but it is a beautiful area.
I do remember when most business in CA were closed on Sunday. And yes it is the owner's prerogative, however, I still maintain that has to do most likely with their religion. Nothing wrong with that, just not what works for us. We are Californians at heart and need to go back home is all. Our sons are there in NorCal, that is where we moved here from so we will try to sell the house here and go back home. Anyone want to buy a great home? Great neighborhood? Green Spring?
Thanks Sergeant for the dialogue, it is always interesting on the boards. So many different opinions, which is what makes the world go 'round!
Our sons are there in NorCal, that is where we moved here from so we will try to sell the house here and go back home.
Moving back to Northren California may be problematic. I live in Sonoma County and housing is outrageous, even with the current dip in the market. I hope you can get sufficient equity from the sale of your home in Utah to buy back into the California market.
My wife and I are fairly certain that once we leave California there is probably no return, considering the differences in property values.
Hi Sergeant, yes, that is problematic...we do have equity here, and have made a few improvements since being here...we are looking to buy a piece of property, an acre or two in the outskirts of Placer County, near Auburn. And have a modular put on it. We lived in the country before and one of the reasons we left was due to not being able to afford to be retired and live there...we bit off more than we could chew when we bought that place! Don't know what we were thinking, except I was working at the time...I miss it though and having some space would be nice again...we have a houseful of dogs and they miss running and playing...We won't be going anywhere for the next 6 months or so, we need to get through the summer here and then work it out...we do miss our sons, and once grandkids come along we need to be closer.
Sonoma County is beautiful, esp. the beaches...love it over there..I miss the trees here. The red rocks are nice, but nothing like a backyard full of trees and squirrels! And yes, it is really expensive there! Even more so than Placer Co. If I were to do all this over again, I would have rented out my house and given this a go. At least that way it would be easy to go back. Now we have to work at it!
You're asking if the fastest growing city in the US is a good place to raise a family? Not really...let me qualify that. I have lived in st. george from 2001-2004 and returned at the beginning of this year to the present. First the good things. St. George is one of the (very) few desert communities that isn't infested with crime. The housing is beautiful, far better quality than the norm (especially in utah, housing up north is ugly). Shopping and dining options are growing incredibly fast. The school system performs decently well, at least above the state average. Some of the old ideas are changing (read: the town fathers) which hindered economic progress with the local government trying to keep it a retirement/golfing community. They finally are starting to realize that it's not going to happen. And now the bad...first the growth. Topping Las vegas for the top spot in growth was a horrible milestone. There is a water situation in st. george, we don't have any and it's a short time before people recognize that, no one conserves and the town doesn't even suggest it for the most part. Of course cost of living is now mirroring las vegas which is why many are leaving north las vegas to move here, not just californians. Of course they're used to 600,000 for a small 3 bedroom home so 350,000 here sounds like a steal. Unfortunately those same homes were being sold for 250000 LITERALLY six MONTHS ago. My parents built a 1700 sq foot home heavily customized and upgraded in 2002 for 215000 in the green valley area and now neighbors are selling smaller cheaper homes for 425,000. Unless you come with A LOT of equity don't try living here there are VERY few apartments and the only one's they're building are "luxury", or so called so they can charge 900/mo for a two bedroom. When my wife and I first rented in 2003 we got a 1400 sq foot 3 bdrm condo for 615 then moved into a 1200 sq foot two bedroom town home for 595. those places are going for 800-1000 a month now, if you can find them available. The school systems are above average for the state but the educators are inexperienced and under qualified. It only takes a high school diploma to substitute teach full time here and some college, no degree to teach at a charter school. and they WILL hire people with no degree, my wife has two friends hired to teach at a charter school with less than 2 years of college. Jobs, hahahaha the proponents of st. george will note the 2.2% unemployment rate, unfortunately those are hourly retail jobs which pay nothing and construction jobs that will disappear as soon as the housing boom ends here, but will the people leave or just be unemployed? People are up to their eyeballs in debt here, 19 yr olds are buying houses with their friends and refinancing every six months to pull out the equity and living off of it. It's a dangerous growth we're having. St. george is now the fifth most dangerous town in utah behind SLC, west valley, ogden, murray and midvale. The crime is basically the same as murray and midvale. Don't get me wrong, it's still quite safe but the influence of drugs here is overwhelming and the source of almost all crime. in that townhome we used to live in we had 2 crack houses in the complex, not meth (which is huge here) CRACK, and they would start their parties at 2 in the morning, not end, start. it was a nice area too near the prestigious shadow mountain area, I can only imagine what dixie downs and the area behind the mall hides. the city redid st. george blvd. one of the only three major roads here(all constantly congested)and it looks nice but the downtown area is trashy looking with nothing but motels, dealerships and fast food to be of interest so it seems like a waste to renovate the street. Area attractions include the Dinosaur tracks, bowling alleys, movie theaters, and walmart shopping. Of course as you all know there are a wealth of natural attractions, I just don't have time off from work to enjoy them. and you do have to TRAVEL to see the beauty of southern utah, st. george is dusty, smoggy and looks run down until you get into the new developments and you realize it's not so bad. downtown housing is UGLY. Gas prices are horrible for utah and groceries are more than up north(considerably) I work in the field so I know. overall, with the tourism, medical (poor wages though $<20/hr for RNs that they need SOOOO badly) and retail fields increasing as they are the end of growth isn't in sight. but it's a growth that will lead to poverty and crime. there aren't even enough apartments for dixie college students. anyway, that's my rant, and a few raves, it's an ok place but no paradise so think carefully.
Last edited by thompson84606; 03-13-2007 at 01:04 PM..
You made some excellent points. No place is perfect. I spent my working years on SoCal in the office of a high school. Very high stress and decent pay, but then I don't think they can pay anyone enough to work in the office of a high school! Anyway, when I left there in 2003 I was making about $16 an hour. I have been looking at the school district here, I have a lot of experience to contribute, but I am not going to do all that work and stress for $8 bucks an hour. So until the government, law enforcement, fire and schools start paying a living wage to these folks, they just arent going to come here to live. They can't afford a starter home. Its really sad. We struggle being retired, and we are only in our early and late 50's. They need to stop building thesef 2 million dollar home and concentrate of mid range and starter homes. Only then will things turn around.
I am new here, but would like to weigh in on this debate. I'd like to address some of the comments in this thread. St. George is a great place to raise a family. The schools are good. My sons graduated from Pine View HS and did well. At the time, we lived very close to PVMS and Panorama ES. We lived in a great neighboorhood but was time to move on. We sold our starter house for an obscene profit at the height of the real estate boom and moved up the hill to Green Springs. It is beautiful up here. The area is very clean, well-kept homes, nice yards. St. Geogre is mostly clean as well. Good shopping and stores are close by but out of sight from my house. Dixie College is the best value in education in the state. I can have my boat on Sand Hollow to water ski in 30 minutes and be jeeping in about the same amount of time. Nice, friendly nieghbors. People out jogging in the morning and walking in the evening. Beautiful sunsets. The down side includes expensive housing. Drugs are available, as they are everywhere. Illegal immigrants everywhere. I believe the local police will be aggressive if they are told about drug problems and I think being trained in immigration laws. They are very proactive. Jobs are available, but in certain areas. If you have a CDL, you can find work. Construction work, production work and labor type jobs are plentiful. Small businesses will work in the service areas. College, schools, police, fire and teaching all pay in the 30K range. Not alot compared to the price of housing. Builders build houses for people that can pay more for them. Not alot of new houses in the 200K range. Not "fair" but the market drives this. You need to bring some equity with you. To reference earlier points, Utah law states the car dealers must be closed one day a week, so the most likely day is Sunday. I don't know why some one would look at you funny for drinking a glass of wine, unless they see you drinking and then assume you will be driving later, or they are jealous. Just trying to be helpful. All in all, a great place to live. I personnaly solved the low paying problem by working in Las Vegas and commuting. Well worth the drive to me. I hope this helps.
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oh boy, st. george
