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Old 11-07-2011, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,574,961 times
Reputation: 24780

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
Link to where THF wants to see public education abolished?

Here's a link for ya.

"Right-wing think tanks have determined that school vouchers are key to eradicating public education and Dick and Betsy DeVos lead the way in execution of the well-funded plan.

"We need to be cautious about talking too much about these activities," Dick DeVos warned in a December 2002 speech at the Heritage Foundation. DeVos was introduced by former Secretary of Education William Bennett and then proposed a stealth strategy for promoting school vouchers in state legislatures. DeVos and his wife Betsy had already spent millions promoting voucher initiatives that were soundly rejected by voters. Pro-privatization think tanks had concluded that vouchers were the most politically viable way to "dismantle" public schools; the DeVoses persevered"

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2011/5/3/12515/58655

 
Old 11-07-2011, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
62 posts, read 148,701 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by First Post
At an education forum in Washington this week, the authors of a new study on teacher compensation discussed their surprising conclusion that, counter to popular belief, public school teachers are overpaid. Speaking before a wound-up audience at an event hosted by the American Enterprise Institute, the conservative-leaning think tank that published the study, the researchers said that when wages, benefits, and job security are accounted for, public school teachers are compensated 52 percent more than their skills would garner in the private sector.
Let's break this down...they say "public school teachers are compensated 52 percent more than their skills would garner in the private sector". That may be logistically true...BUT...how can you oversimplify it in such a way? You keep lowering the pay and you'll end up getting the worst of the worst. Education is the FUTURE! You are bringing up the next generation. We need the best of the best teaching in our schools. If that takes being more selective and giving better incentives then go that route rather than paying our current teachers less than they're making now. You have to factor in that teachers have to deal with horrible kids all day. Now that they can't discipline children in a very effective manner (I know, very subjective opinion) they have to be even more so talented at their jobs. It's gone from 'educator' to educator/babysitter. Shoot, they probably raise the kids of the US more than most parents do...so, yea...let's pay them less (sarcasm).
 
Old 11-07-2011, 03:24 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,753,083 times
Reputation: 20853
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
I don't care about CEO's or private company execs because my tax dollars do not pay their salary.
If you believe that you really are drinking the Kool-aid.

Bailouts?
Tax cuts?
Stimulus packages?

Maybe you are not paying towards those things but this soon to be EX teacher is.
 
Old 11-07-2011, 03:30 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,753,083 times
Reputation: 20853
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post




why did you make the switch?
Ivory and I were both part of the "recruitment" of professionals that happened in the last 10 years or so, so I suspect her story if very similar to mine.

I was a researcher and taught adjunct classes at the local community college and loved teaching. I got offered the dream teaching job with only about 20% pay cut when you take into account the benefits (primarily a defined benefits plan over 403) and my summer grants. Since I loved teaching so much my family and I discussed it and seemed like a viable choice. With the huge pay cuts this year (and for the next 3) it is not longer financially responsible and I have already signed my new contract back in research starting this upcoming June.
 
Old 11-07-2011, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,483,364 times
Reputation: 41122
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Ivory and I were both part of the "recruitment" of professionals that happened in the last 10 years or so, so I suspect her story if very similar to mine.

I was a researcher and taught adjunct classes at the local community college and loved teaching. I got offered the dream teaching job with only about 20% pay cut when you take into account the benefits (primarily a defined benefits plan over 403) and my summer grants. Since I loved teaching so much my family and I discussed it and seemed like a viable choice. With the huge pay cuts this year (and for the next 3) it is not longer financially responsible and I have already signed my new contract back in research starting this upcoming June.
Well, you have to do what is best for your family. I was offering a suggestion to Ivory's particular circumstance as she seems particularly unhappy and stressed. If I could double my salary and be happier, I'd be leaving post haste. We all need to look out for our family first. That goes without saying - regarless of the career.
 
Old 11-07-2011, 04:01 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,753,083 times
Reputation: 20853
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Well, you have to do what is best for your family. I was offering a suggestion to Ivory's particular circumstance as she seems particularly unhappy and stressed. If I could double my salary and be happier, I'd be leaving post haste. We all need to look out for our family first. That goes without saying - regarless of the career.
I am sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

I love teaching. Everyday, even the ones when I want to tear my hair out. I have the best, brightest students in the world and I will miss them everyday.

Also, I will not be making twice as much money. When I take into account my benefits I will be making a bit less than a third more. I will also be required to go back to sea (a love hate relationship to be sure) for large chunks of time. But there is less stress, and a better long term future. It is just sad that is all. It will decimate my school when we all leave. I think our school district is beginning to freak out a bit but there is nothing to be done for it.
 
Old 11-07-2011, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,483,364 times
Reputation: 41122
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
I am sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

I love teaching. Everyday, even the ones when I want to tear my hair out. I have the best, brightest students in the world and I will miss them everyday.

Also, I will not be making twice as much money. When I take into account my benefits I will be making a bit less than a third more. I will also be required to go back to sea (a love hate relationship to be sure) for large chunks of time. But there is less stress, and a better long term future. It is just sad that is all. It will decimate my school when we all leave. I think our school district is beginning to freak out a bit but there is nothing to be done for it.
But my original response was not geared to you - I was responding to another poster who is clearly unhappy and at the end of her rope. But, my advice stands - we all must do what is best for our family. If that means you need to do something you like less, just to make ends meet, then that's what needs to be done. If you have the luxury of doing something you love for less pay and being able to live in a way that suits you, then more power to you. Unfortunately, that is how life is right now for many many people. Not just teachers. I know lots of educated people who are doing jobs they don't care for to make ends meet. Most are at least somewhat happy to be employed. Hopefully things will look up soon. For everyone.
 
Old 11-07-2011, 04:07 PM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,200,913 times
Reputation: 32726
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Ivory and I were both part of the "recruitment" of professionals that happened in the last 10 years or so, so I suspect her story if very similar to mine.

I was a researcher and taught adjunct classes at the local community college and loved teaching. I got offered the dream teaching job with only about 20% pay cut when you take into account the benefits (primarily a defined benefits plan over 403) and my summer grants. Since I loved teaching so much my family and I discussed it and seemed like a viable choice. With the huge pay cuts this year (and for the next 3) it is not longer financially responsible and I have already signed my new contract back in research starting this upcoming June.
That's really too bad that it turned out that way. I'm sure the intentions were good, but things have gone downhill in all professions, unfortunately. Like maciesmom said, you have to do what you have to do.
 
Old 11-07-2011, 05:58 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,753,083 times
Reputation: 20853
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305 View Post
That's really too bad that it turned out that way. I'm sure the intentions were good, but things have gone downhill in all professions, unfortunately. Like maciesmom said, you have to do what you have to do.
And let's extrapolate a bit. I teach in a magnet school in one of the top ten districts in the nation. We specialize in math, science and engineering. What do you think is going to happen to those schools with the teachers in the core subjects (math, science, and engineering) leaving?

The reality is that those with the most options, are going to leave. Those with the most options are the ones who have the most experience, most degrees, most connections in their fields. All variables that correlate strongly with student success. It pains me to see what is going to happen to schools, when some of the best teachers can no longer afford to work in public education.
 
Old 11-07-2011, 06:11 PM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,937,495 times
Reputation: 13807
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
And let's extrapolate a bit. I teach in a magnet school in one of the top ten districts in the nation. We specialize in math, science and engineering. What do you think is going to happen to those schools with the teachers in the core subjects (math, science, and engineering) leaving?

The reality is that those with the most options, are going to leave. Those with the most options are the ones who have the most experience, most degrees, most connections in their fields. All variables that correlate strongly with student success. It pains me to see what is going to happen to schools, when some of the best teachers can no longer afford to work in public education.
Yes! This is true in all professions. The most qualified, experienced and most able people are usually the ones who leave because they are the ones who have the most value in the job market. Very often they are headhunted away.

Then you are left with the others. Mostly they are competent but not exceptional. The solution in private industry is generally to improve pay, benefits and prospects for the people you really want to keep. You can do that because it is your money and your decision. You don't have to suck up to a bunch of politicians to make it happen.
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