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Dude!
Why did you post here if you had no intention of listening to anyone's advice?
SMDH
Common sense should have told you to talk to a more experienced male teacher for advice.
Don't you have colleagues???
:O
I appreciate the range of feedback and advice from all the experienced members here. The responses ranged, generally speaking, from (1) follow the policy and enforce the rules regardless of gender concerns – don’t be a pushover, (2) print copies of the DC, document violations, but do not specifically say “remove your sweatpants”, (3) ask an experienced male teacher how to handle situation, and (4) there were a few comments which disapproved of sweatpants removal while in homeroom – I should send students to the bathroom to change.
Ultimately, my principal confirmed I have an obligation to enforce these rules. She firmly told me to enforce the policy – don’t hesitate or the students will not respect me as a new teacher. I also sensed an unspoken implication that she will not respect me if I continue to get tagged for failing to enforce policies.
In attempting to be tactful, I feel hamstrung because the relevant handbook rules specifically say:
--“Students are expected to arrive on campus wearing proper uniform attire, and remain in uniform until they are off campus at the end of the school day.”
--“Students shall report to assigned homerooms by the 7:35 AM warning bell. During homeroom all hallways, bathrooms, and locker areas shall remain clear until the first period bell, except in an emergency.”
--“Homeroom teachers shall check and ensure uniform compliance at the start of each day.”
--“Students are expected to fully cooperate during uniform compliance checks, and shall remedy violations immediately upon request.
--“Sweatpants, pajama pants, leggings, or any other style of pants are not permitted underneath the uniform skirt.”
To enforce the spirit and the letter of these rules it’s become clear I'm expected to ensure sweatpants are removed while still in homeroom, otherwise I’ll get administratively cited again.
Here are the relevant skirt length rules (probably written forty years ago):
--“Skirts shall not be rolled around the waist.”
--“Skirts shall be no shorter than 3 inches above the floor when kneeling.”
The archaic protocol for taking a measurement is to request the student kneel on the floor, straighten her back and look straight ahead. Three ruler measurements are to be taken – one on each side, and one on the back of the skirt. If any one of those measurements exceeds three inches above the floor, there’s an infraction punishable by detention. If the skirt is rolled at the waist, the student is expected to unroll it while in homeroom. If the length cannot be corrected, the student is to be sent to the office at the first period bell and parents will be called.
A female colleague told me that, practically speaking, skirt length doesn’t receive much overall enforcement because faculty dislike administering the kneeling measurement test even when hemlines are noticeably higher on the thigh. However, her advice was to follow our principal’s guidance as I establish my credibility.
I appreciate the range of feedback and advice from all the experienced members here. The responses ranged, generally speaking, from (1) follow the policy and enforce the rules regardless of gender concerns – don’t be a pushover, (2) print copies of the DC, document violations, but do not specifically say “remove your sweatpants”, (3) ask an experienced male teacher how to handle situation, and (4) there were a few comments which disapproved of sweatpants removal while in homeroom – I should send students to the bathroom to change.
Ultimately, my principal confirmed I have an obligation to enforce these rules. She firmly told me to enforce the policy – don’t hesitate or the students will not respect me as a new teacher. I also sensed an unspoken implication that she will not respect me if I continue to get tagged for failing to enforce policies.
In attempting to be tactful, I feel hamstrung because the relevant handbook rules specifically say:
--“Students are expected to arrive on campus wearing proper uniform attire, and remain in uniform until they are off campus at the end of the school day.”
--“Students shall report to assigned homerooms by the 7:35 AM warning bell. During homeroom all hallways, bathrooms, and locker areas shall remain clear until the first period bell, except in an emergency.”
--“Homeroom teachers shall check and ensure uniform compliance at the start of each day.”
--“Students are expected to fully cooperate during uniform compliance checks, and shall remedy violations immediately upon request.
--“Sweatpants, pajama pants, leggings, or any other style of pants are not permitted underneath the uniform skirt.”
To enforce the spirit and the letter of these rules it’s become clear I'm expected to ensure sweatpants are removed while still in homeroom, otherwise I’ll get administratively cited again.
Here are the relevant skirt length rules (probably written forty years ago):
--“Skirts shall not be rolled around the waist.”
--“Skirts shall be no shorter than 3 inches above the floor when kneeling.”
The archaic protocol for taking a measurement is to request the student kneel on the floor, straighten her back and look straight ahead. Three ruler measurements are to be taken – one on each side, and one on the back of the skirt. If any one of those measurements exceeds three inches above the floor, there’s an infraction punishable by detention. If the skirt is rolled at the waist, the student is expected to unroll it while in homeroom. If the length cannot be corrected, the student is to be sent to the office at the first period bell and parents will be called.
A female colleague told me that, practically speaking, skirt length doesn’t receive much overall enforcement because faculty dislike administering the kneeling measurement test even when hemlines are noticeably higher on the thigh. However, her advice was to follow our principal’s guidance as I establish my credibility.
This is a Catholic/religious school, yes?
Ok, some advice from a 30+ year public school teacher whose school had uniforms the last several years before I retired.
First off, and let me emphasize this: Unless it's really outrageously short stop measuring skirt length. Continuing to do so will eventually come back to bite you. Of course, if it's really obvious have it get fixed. You can tell those.
Second.
Stand at your door in the morning as the kids are coming in for Home Room. Don't let them even come into the room with sweats on. Stop them right there and direct them to the restroom to fix the problem.
For those of you who are talking about telling kids to "take their pants off" try to remember what we're talking about here. Loose sweatpants with a skirt over them. Those things will fall down when the kids are walking so there's no strip tease going on.
As a note I'd be willing to bet your Principal is seeing these girls with sweats on and not saying anything because she doesn't want the confrontation. That's how it worked at my school, admins chose which rules to enforce and expected teachers to always be the bad guys. Then again, the last several years the administrative team rarely showed up before third period most days. That way teachers had to cover their lunch duty for them.
It's interesting that, per policy, noncompliance on the issue of skirt length can be dealt with by sending the student to the office, but the same doesn't hold true for the noncompliance on the issue of wearing of pants underneath the uniform.
For those of you who are talking about telling kids to "take their pants off" try to remember what we're talking about here. Loose sweatpants with a skirt over them. Those things will fall down when the kids are walking so there's no strip tease going on.
While not necessarily snug or leggings, I see students wearing sweatpants that fit and so they don't simply fall down. They have to be pulled down which might require a young lady to lift her skirt to grab the waistband.
For those of you who are talking about telling kids to "take their pants off" try to remember what we're talking about here. Loose sweatpants with a skirt over them. Those things will fall down when the kids are walking so there's no strip tease going on.
None of us has any real idea what these girls are wearing. But the OP went from too afraid to correct the students to having them kneel in front of everyone to have their skirts measured.
Despite your speculation about his principal, which we also have no idea about, your idea about stopping them at the door is the best one. He should not let them in UNTIL they are compliant. Then it remains the students' problem and doesn't become his problem.
The real issue is that the OP is too scared to enforce some rules while mysteriously OK with enforcing some that most systems would deem archaic today.
I’m a first year male teacher looking for input on tactfully handling female student dress code violations. All homeroom teachers at my private school are expected to resolve dress code problems before students are sent to first period. I’ve had two recent incidents where I was cited for failing to enforce dress code standards in my homeroom.
Both incidents are similar in that I failed to address female students coming to homeroom, then going to first period, still wearing sweatpants under their uniform skirts. While technically our student handbook forbids students arriving to school with sweatpants under skirts, our principal permits it as long as the sweatpants are removed before homeroom – generally when students first go to their lockers, because our winter climate has been bone chilling.
My reluctance to enforce the policy stems primarily from embarrassment, as a male authoritative figure, in having to instruct any high school aged female to “remove her sweatpants” before she can leave my homeroom. But on the other hand, I cannot allow myself to get anymore administrative citations. My inexperience makes me dread having to enforce dress code rules under these circumstances.
I agree with you, and I frankly find a dress code that insists female students bare their legs to be pretty offensive and blatantly sexist. Can't they just wear tights or leggings? Or pants?? If not, I'd honestly look for a new place of employment. But in the meantime, read the policy from a paper or something and use the most official language to make announcements like that.
I appreciate the range of feedback and advice from all the experienced members here. The responses ranged, generally speaking, from (1) follow the policy and enforce the rules regardless of gender concerns – don’t be a pushover, (2) print copies of the DC, document violations, but do not specifically say “remove your sweatpants”, (3) ask an experienced male teacher how to handle situation, and (4) there were a few comments which disapproved of sweatpants removal while in homeroom – I should send students to the bathroom to change.
Ultimately, my principal confirmed I have an obligation to enforce these rules. She firmly told me to enforce the policy – don’t hesitate or the students will not respect me as a new teacher. I also sensed an unspoken implication that she will not respect me if I continue to get tagged for failing to enforce policies.
In attempting to be tactful, I feel hamstrung because the relevant handbook rules specifically say:
--“Students are expected to arrive on campus wearing proper uniform attire, and remain in uniform until they are off campus at the end of the school day.”
--“Students shall report to assigned homerooms by the 7:35 AM warning bell. During homeroom all hallways, bathrooms, and locker areas shall remain clear until the first period bell, except in an emergency.”
--“Homeroom teachers shall check and ensure uniform compliance at the start of each day.”
--“Students are expected to fully cooperate during uniform compliance checks, and shall remedy violations immediately upon request.
--“Sweatpants, pajama pants, leggings, or any other style of pants are not permitted underneath the uniform skirt.”
To enforce the spirit and the letter of these rules it’s become clear I'm expected to ensure sweatpants are removed while still in homeroom, otherwise I’ll get administratively cited again.
Here are the relevant skirt length rules (probably written forty years ago):
--“Skirts shall not be rolled around the waist.”
--“Skirts shall be no shorter than 3 inches above the floor when kneeling.”
The archaic protocol for taking a measurement is to request the student kneel on the floor, straighten her back and look straight ahead. Three ruler measurements are to be taken – one on each side, and one on the back of the skirt. If any one of those measurements exceeds three inches above the floor, there’s an infraction punishable by detention. If the skirt is rolled at the waist, the student is expected to unroll it while in homeroom. If the length cannot be corrected, the student is to be sent to the office at the first period bell and parents will be called.
A female colleague told me that, practically speaking, skirt length doesn’t receive much overall enforcement because faculty dislike administering the kneeling measurement test even when hemlines are noticeably higher on the thigh. However, her advice was to follow our principal’s guidance as I establish my credibility.
This is abhorrently sexist. I can't believe such a thing still exists. Hopefully it's at least a private school and not funded by tax dollars (yet).
First off, and let me emphasize this: Unless it's really outrageously short stop measuring skirt length. Continuing to do so will eventually come back to bite you. Of course, if it's really obvious have it get fixed. You can tell those.
I also fear that measuring may eventually cause me a problem. I don't feel it should be the homeroom teacher's responsibility. The problem is with the way our rules delegate enforcement responsibilities. Our administration's philosophy focuses on keeping the student out of the office and in the classroom by requiring teachers to resolve and document low level issues. Issues related to skirt length require documentation, and documentation requires the homeroom teacher to take the measurements.
I felt awkward taking measurements, but reasoned that setting a new precedent for upholding student accountability in my homeroom could payoff in future compliance, more respect, as well as create a paper trail for documentation of repeat violations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person
Stand at your door in the morning as the kids are coming in for Home Room. Don't let them even come into the room with sweats on. Stop them right there and direct them to the restroom to fix the problem.
I'm going to stand at the door this week and see how it goes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person
For those of you who are talking about telling kids to "take their pants off" try to remember what we're talking about here. Loose sweatpants with a skirt over them. Those things will fall down when the kids are walking so there's no strip tease going on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieFan
While not necessarily snug or leggings, I see students wearing sweatpants that fit and so they don't simply fall down. They have to be pulled down which might require a young lady to lift her skirt to grab the waistband.
This is the style of sweatpants which students wear under their skirts as they arrive in the mornings. There is a drawstring on the waistband.
OP, you could ask an experienced teacher (who happens to also be a male) how they tactfully address these types of dress code situations. You could also ask your principal how to handle them.
Maybe the solution is that you stand at the door to your classroom, and address dress code violations before they even enter homeroom.
But in no way should you ask your students to take off their sweatpants in the classroom.
I agree.
OP, I just read your latest post where you will stand by the door and immediately send the girl to the bathroom to take off her pants before she enters homeroom. That sounds like the best way to handle the situation.
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