What's the value of an Ed.D. degree? (degrees, principal, license)

[youngprodigy21]

Here is what I do know about the degree.

-It prepares candidates for administrative roles rather than academic research roles, as with a Ph.D.
-It is much more conducive to the full-time teacher, as most classes, if not all, are held during the evenings on a part-time basis.
-The research is not as rigorous as a PhD., which makes a completion a lot more doable while also balancing a full-time teaching load.


Here is what I would like to know.
-Is the degree necessary in my situation, for if I ever wanted to move out of the K-12 classroom and into an administrative role as either a curriculum designer, instructional coach, program director, or ELL supervisor? This is considering that I don't already have an M.Ed. but rather an M.A.
-In general, are the job prospects in the respective fields better for Ed.D.'s than Ph.D.'s? For example, is a person with an Ed.D. more likely to land an administrative job of his or her interest than a Ph.D. graduate looking to land a tenure track professor position?


Here is my situation. I have a master's in English and a master's in TESOL. I currently teach middle school ESL. The master's in TESOL is considered a terminal degree in English language teaching, yet the job market for post-secondary ESL instructors in the United States is rather scarce. I would like to eventually move to a district office job or full-time community college position. Teaching post-secondary education full-time would be my dream job, but I am not holding with breath to it.

In the district where I work, I know some school principals who have Ed.D.s. They are usually ones that began teaching with a master's degree that wasn't an M.Ed. So going back for a doctorate sufficed the M.Ed. requirments for a principal's license and also gave them the "doctor" title. But I have no desire to work as a school principal. So what other doors might an Ed.D. open for me that an MA TESOL and years of relevant work experience can't already?

[bagster]

You can get this degree in OK, and then become the superintendent of some little pizzant school with less than 500 students. You may knock down over a 100K a year. I don't know about other states.

*figures are approximations

[Danbo1957]

Well, there is teaching, research, writing, and education administration. No different than any other Doctorate, it is a personal achievement, and is necessary for many professional positions in its subject matter.

[youngprodigy21]

Originally Posted by bagster

You can get this degree in OK, and then become the superintendent of some little pizzant school with less than 500 students. You may knock down over a 100K a year. I don't know about other states.

*figures are approximations

Middle of nowhere Oklahoma...I'll pass.

[photobuff42]

Originally Posted by youngprodigy21

Here is what I do know about the degree.

-It prepares candidates for administrative roles rather than academic research roles, as with a Ph.D.

I have an Ed.D. I have worked on research projects with the Department of Education, and conducted research on my own and with colleagues that was presented at state, national and international conferences.

Originally Posted by youngprodigy21

-It is much more conducive to the full-time teacher, as most classes, if not all, are held during the evenings on a part-time basis.

I was a full time student, with a fellowship. Scholarship was my full time pursuit.

Originally Posted by youngprodigy21

-The research is not as rigorous as a PhD., which makes a completion a lot more doable while also balancing a full-time teaching load.

I had to take more research hours than is required in many PhD programs. I had to pass a research proficiency examination, to show that I had good understanding of statistics and understood solid research principles.

Originally Posted by youngprodigy21

Here is what I would like to know.
-Is the degree necessary in my situation, for if I ever wanted to move out of the K-12 classroom and into an administrative role as either a curriculum designer, instructional coach, program director, or ELL supervisor? This is considering that I don't already have an M.Ed. but rather an M.A.

The certification requirements of the state you work in is what you should be concerned about. Most state certifying agencies care about the coursework you took to get your degree, not the degree itself.

Originally Posted by youngprodigy21

-In general, are the job prospects in the respective fields better for Ed.D.'s than Ph.D.'s? For example, is a person with an Ed.D. more likely to land an administrative job of his or her interest than a Ph.D. graduate looking to land a tenure track professor position?

Are you trying to compare apples and oranges? An educated person with passion, good experience and a drive to achieve, is the one who gets the job. Of course if you are working in the Public Schools, you have to meet certification requirements, which means your program of study has the right list of courses.

Originally Posted by youngprodigy21

Here is my situation. I have a master's in English and a master's in TESOL. I currently teach middle school ESL. The master's in TESOL is considered a terminal degree in English language teaching, yet the job market for post-secondary ESL instructors in the United States is rather scarce.

A Master's degree is not a terminal degree.

Originally Posted by youngprodigy21

I would like to eventually move to a district office job or full-time community college position. Teaching post-secondary education full-time would be my dream job, but I am not holding with breath to it.

In the district where I work, I know some school principals who have Ed.D.s. They are usually ones that began teaching with a master's degree that wasn't an M.Ed.
So going back for a doctorate sufficed the M.Ed. requirments for a principal's license and also gave them the "doctor" title. But I have no desire to work as a school principal.

You are confusing degree types with certification requirements. Do you think a person with an Ed.D. is a lesser "doctor"? Maybe those administrators pursued a degree at an institution that lacked rigorous requirements.

Originally Posted by youngprodigy21

what other doors might an Ed.D. open for me that an MA TESOL and years of relevant work experience can't already?

Absolutely none, unless the organization requires that the successful candidate holds a terminal degree, usually termed as an earned Doctorate.

My Ed.D. has been quite valuable. I learned a lot during my residency at the university. I learned even more while conducting my research and writing my dissertation. That work helped me learn how to learn, and to respect learning and those who are truly learned. It helped me earn the respect of my peers and some of my adversaries.

But I value the ability it's given me to help others, especially teachers who help students, and parents who had no one else to turn to when they were fighting for their kid's rights and future.

If you don't want those things, you shouldn't be pursuing an Ed.D. Just my opinion.


Of course it's helped me earn a lot of money, too. But that's not the point.

[scorpio516]

Originally Posted by bagster

You can get this degree in OK, and then become the superintendent of some little pizzant school with less than 500 students. You may knock down over a 100K a year. I don't know about other states.

My daughter's principal has an Ed.D. She's the second highest paid employee in the district as an elementary school principal, after the superintendent. $150k is a lot even in Mass. Almost every other person in the city that makes over $150k is a cop or the city manager.

[teachbeach]

Top of the scale in most districts; will open doors for curriculum specialist, college teaching, administrative positions (not all are Superintendent or Principal). Colleagues that I worked with that obtained their Ed.D were able to do it while holding down a full time position~the schedule was evenings and Saturday coursework. Some took the entire 7+ years, others were more fast-tracked and completed it in less.

I would think that it would/could only help you move to other positions more easily, since you don't already have an Ed. degree. Some places like to acknowledge the fact that they have X amount of faculty/staff with doctorate degrees.

[phetaroi]

To the OP...what do you want to be when you grow up. Just joking in phrasing it that way, but it really is a way to look at YOU figuring out the answer to your question. Let me give you my example. It was back around 1980 and I wanted to get into school admin as a principal, with no desire to become, for example, a district administrator. I already had a B.S. and M.S. in geology with, essentially, minors in education and full certification. Living in Maryland and wanting to do grad work at the University Of Maryland, I had two options in their Education Policy & Leadership department -- a doctoral degree or an "Advanced Graduate Specialist" degree. At the time, the latter was essentially the doctoral degree program without the dissertation, substituting instead an all day written exam at the end of the program (the course work was identical except for a couple of course directly related to writing a dissertation and one less stat course).

So I looked at the schools in the state and county where I wanted to move to in order to see how many of their principals had doctorates. It was very, very few. As I recall, perhaps 10%. Most "just" had Master's degrees, which I already had, albeit not in education leadership. So I went the route of the AGS degree, and very quickly moved into admin.

So my recommendation is to see what's typical in the system you want to be in, then do it one level higher.

[OtterTrees]

Both PhDs and EdDs have equal shot of landing admin and other similar jobs around here. They are well paid positions but it may not be worth it for many people since tuition is expensive and assistantships in full time programs are low paying. Part time programs are great but it is just as much when you add in working full time. Both require a lot of work and dedication. The main thing that should drive your decision is whether you need a doctorate and, if you do, which program best suits your goals. I looked at several and have narriwed it down to one that will be a great match for my interest in curriculum development and the science of learning. While others focused more on district leadership and were heavy on budget, public policy, and dealing with people/human resources.

[Nathan777]

Nothing