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Talking about it is one thing, doing it is another. It's just internet machismo talking, don't take it seriously. What this guy did was pretty cold, bordering on sick, you can hear him on the recording saying "your dead b*tch" to the girl. He admitted to taking a .22 and putting it under her chin to finish her, and for that he will likely be going to jail for some time. He also waited a day to call the police and made some initial steps to hide the bodies.
This gun owner and concealed carry holder cannot endorse taking it to that extreme. My license training in self-defense did not include a provision to execute a criminal.
We don't know yet what the official "facts" of this case will be presented during the trial, but as a hypothical, I agree with all these points.
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I still say however if you are involved in a self-defense shooting - immediately lawyer the f up and do not talk to the police!
The police aren't concerned with justice. They want an arrest. If you hand them a probable cause, you're just as good a suspect as anyone. The prosecutors aren't concerned with justice, they want a convicition. If you hand them enough evidence to get one, you're just as good a conviction as anyone.
The homeowner had parked his truck a couple blocks away from his house, which wasn't common of him to do. Of course, the prosecution is using this as 'evidence' that he planned this, and wanted it to appear the nobody was home if/when he was next burglarized. The thing that I think will convict him of murder is the "kill shot(s)" done shortly after the victims were incapacitated.
FWIW, he did wait a day to contact police because he didn't want to "inconvenience them" on Thanksgiving. I don't know to what extent mental illness may have played a role withe the HO but I doubt a rational-thinking person would have taken some of the steps Mr. Smith took.
I hate guns. I've spent a lot of time in Minnesota and was told by someone I know who is a police officer that if someone breaks into your home, you have a right to shoot to defend yourself...but was this man defending himself from (as I understand it)...unarmed kids? And how many shots are necessary to incapacitate the burglar?
I don't know enough about the case, but it seems he went over the top. I understand his frustration as there are some bad neighborhoods in every city, but he kind of almost baited them to break into his house by hiding his truck.
A baseball bat could have greatly incapacitated the burglars too in this case.
Shooting an unarmed person always makes me uneasy though. I don't think the teens were looking to harm anyone, I think they were being extreme dumbazzs but didn't deserve to die.[/quote]
Dumbazzzs don't deserve to die................how about finding another hobby besides BURGLARY!
One thing is for sure: he rid the world of two worthless little pieces of filth. One hopes this happened before they could reproduce. He's a hero. But sometimes, heroes get into trouble for their courageous deeds.
Given the suicidal altruism prevalent in Minnesota, I'm sure this great man is in deep poo. But he deserves medals, commendations, and a big cash bonus, for saving Minnesota's Taxpayers hundreds of thousands of Dollars - maybe even millions - that would have been incurred in having to deal with these creatures, and their probable descendants, during their wretched and destructive lifespans.
Good job, Byron Smith! You have made the world a better place.
Oh, and where can we contribute to his defense fund?
I hate guns. I've spent a lot of time in Minnesota and was told by someone I know who is a police officer that if someone breaks into your home, you have a right to shoot to defend yourself...but was this man defending himself from (as I understand it)...unarmed kids? And how many shots are necessary to incapacitate the burglar?
I don't know enough about the case, but it seems he went over the top. I understand his frustration as there are some bad neighborhoods in every city, but he kind of almost baited them to break into his house by hiding his truck.
A baseball bat could have greatly incapacitated the burglars too in this case.
Sorry, but the homeowner does not have the burden of interviewing people breaking into his home to see if they are armed or not and to ask their age; if they were armed, it most likely will be too late for the homeowner to react.
He baited them? Now it is the homeowner's fault for people breaking into his house? How in the heck did you come to this conclusion?
"A baseball bat could have greatly incapacitated the burglars too in this case."
Not if the people breaking in have a gun, and the first shots were not enough to deter the second person from coming in, so doubtful a baseball bat would have been a deterrent. Also, he is an old guy versus two young people, does not give much leeway for confronting two people with a bat. Besides, how about wondering why the two people were there in the first place? How does this keep getting missed? And why the focus on all the legal things the homeowner did?
Some additional details I have heard being reported-
His home security system recorded the incidents audio
Shot the first guy twice-he fell down the stairs, then told the kid "you're dead" before shooting the unarmed kid in the face.
Then you hear the rustling of a tarp as he moves the body onto it to keep the blood from staining his carpet.
He reloads the gun, and 11 minutes later the female comes down, you can hear her call out "Nick?". He shoots her. The guy tells her "Oh sorry bout that", she screams "oh my god", then more shots. He then tells her you're dying *****". He then drags her over to the other body on the tarp.
He notices she is still gasping for air, calls her a ***** again, and shoots her under the chin, later telling investigators that it was a good clean finishing shot to put her out of her pain.
He planned it out, parking his truck away from the home, and taking a secondary route to the home to make it look unoccupied, He brought water and energy bars to eat while he waited for them to show up. (Not exactly the act of a terrified man that he is now claiming huh?)
I've heard rumors he also had a cell phone jammer, but havent been able to verify that.
Homeowner is definitely justified in killing anyone who enters his house without his permission who doesn't live there. Period. I don't care if they're armed or not. I'd have done the same (though I don't own a gun, so I can't)
He's a murderer. He planned to kill them. He had the tarps ready for their bodies. He had set up a surveillance system but didn't bother with an alarm, because he wanted them to come in and he wanted to kill them. He knew they had entered the house because of his video surveillance systems, but didn't bother to call the cops, even though he had plenty of time. In fact, he DID have cell phone jammers so no calls could go out or in. He clearly had disabled them, and wasn't scared of them when he shot them point blank AFTER taking some time to disparage them. The posters who think that he rid the world of scum are psychotic, and the guy who killed them is a sociopath.
He waited ten minutes after killing the first person to kill the second person. He had AMPLE time to call the cops, and chose instead to kill.
This guy planned these murders. He waited a day to call the cops - probably figured it was too difficult to drag the bodies out on his own. He is being prosecuted for FIRST DEGREE MURDER. There is no legitimate self-defense argument here, since 1) he lay in wait for them, 2) he had time to call the cops but he didn't, 3) he had disabled them, 4) they were not armed, 5) he was clearly angry and not scared (proven by his own audio recordings of the even).
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"He's down in the basement, in a chair, tucked between two bookcases at the bottom of the stairs. He said he was down there reading a book ... with his Mini-14, a .22-caliber revolver, some energy bars and a bottle of water," Wartner said.
Wartner said Smith heard the door of his house rattle at about 12:30 p.m., then someone walking across the deck, then a window breaking.
"And he waited," Wartner said.
Prosecutors say as Brady descended the basement steps, Smith shot him in the chest, then in the back while Brady fell, Wartner said. Smith fired a final shot into Brady's head, the bullet passing through Brady's hand, Wartner said. Smith put Brady's body on a tarp so he wouldn't get blood on his carpet, dragged it into his workshop, reloaded his rifle and sat down again, the prosecutor said.
A few minutes later, Kifer walked down the stairs and Smith shot her, Wartner said. His rifle jammed when he tried a second shot, and Smith told police he believed Kifer laughed at him.
"He was angry," Wartner said, then describing that Smith pulled out his revolver and shot her twice in the head, once in the left eye and once behind the left ear.
Smith dragged Kifer's body into the workshop and laid it on top of Brady's, Wartner said. Smith told investigators he thought he heard Kifer gasping, so he placed his revolver under her chin and fired what he told police was a "good clean finishing shot to the head," the assistant prosecutor said.
Some additional details I have heard being reported-
His home security system recorded the incidents audio
Shot the first guy twice-he fell down the stairs, then told the kid "you're dead" before shooting the unarmed kid in the face.
Then you hear the rustling of a tarp as he moves the body onto it to keep the blood from staining his carpet.
He reloads the gun, and 11 minutes later the female comes down, you can hear her call out "Nick?". He shoots her. The guy tells her "Oh sorry bout that", she screams "oh my god", then more shots. He then tells her you're dying *****". He then drags her over to the other body on the tarp.
He notices she is still gasping for air, calls her a ***** again, and shoots her under the chin, later telling investigators that it was a good clean finishing shot to put her out of her pain.
If so, then he crossed that line between self defense and offense. A homeowner is allowed to use up to deadly force to remove the threat, however, the statements above show me the threat was removed before he shot the male in the face, and the continuing shooting of the female after the first shots and treatment after.
This on top of that someone stated he called the police much later (or was it a neighbor? shows me this guy crossed the line out of self defense.
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Originally Posted by greywar
He planned it out, parking his truck away from the home, and taking a secondary route to the home to make it look unoccupied, He brought water and energy bars to eat while he waited for them to show up. (Not exactly the act of a terrified man that he is now claiming huh?)
Not illegal. No law states he cannot wait for people to break in, park his truck down the street, etc, however, it is against the law for those two people to break in. He also does not have to be terrified to use deadly force.
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Originally Posted by greywar
I've heard rumors he also had a cell phone jammer, but havent been able to verify that.
Even if he did, that is an FCC issue.
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