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You can do them in fatter buildings as long as the exterior walls/window line to what will be the central core (hallways, stairwells, HVAC/Storage closets, Elevator shafts) isn't too long.
Nuance about every floor plate, target market, and layout option can help things work if the building is a little thicker. But in general, the thicker the building, the harder it is to pencil a conversion. Renters just don't value that extra bonus room 40 feet from a window.
Even city urban universities like to keep everything on their own footprint/campus. As mentioned in the one article UC Hastings (now UC SF) going to downtown SF years ago is more of an anomaly. Some schools might be able to do that as a one off graduate school location, but it's not a trend that will save downtowns. Universities and students like everything to be within reach walking distance, and incorporating dedicated shuttle busses, of main campus.
Not necessarily. Many universities put certain functions in business districts off-campus, like law and medical research annexes. That's because both the students and faculty often mix their time--students with internships and faculty with "day jobs."
This won't "save" downtowns on a large scale, but it's a factor.
Nuance about every floor plate, target market, and layout option can help things work if the building is a little thicker. But in general, the thicker the building, the harder it is to pencil a conversion. Renters just don't value that extra bonus room 40 feet from a window.
I have been is a couple fat building renovations, former like 6-8 story old school department stores, and it's not ideal especially if surrounded by taller buildings. It's better to take those extra bonus rooms put them in the central common area core and rent them as storage units.
Not necessarily. Many universities put certain functions in business districts off-campus, like law and medical research annexes. That's because both the students and faculty often mix their time--students with internships and faculty with "day jobs."
This won't "save" downtowns on a large scale, but it's a factor.
Storage units in an apartment building (a) don't make much if any rent revenue, and (b) can't be rented to people who aren't residents for security and logistics reasons. Deep interior space in a residential building is a money loser. This isn't a question, it's known to everyone in commercial real estate, hence the lack of thick conversions. At best, you can sometimes build an atrium, but that's a challenge and huge cost in its own right.
As for university annexes, it's actually very common. Just in the western US, Seattle, Portland, SF, Denver, Sacramento, Salt Lake City, and Phoenix have annexes of their top universities in their downtowns (or downtown fringes in Seattle's case). These range from small annexes with limited function to major academic and research centers.
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University of Southern California (USC) is opening a Capital facility in Washington D.C. next year. They are a expecting a "few hundred" students to be filling up classroom spaces in the building located pretty centrally in DC. This follows a number of other recent university expansions into the capital city such as Johns Hopkins, Texas A&M, Arizona State, University of California etc.
Storage units in an apartment building (a) don't make much if any rent revenue, and (b) can't be rented to people who aren't residents for security and logistics reasons. Deep interior space in a residential building is a money loser. This isn't a question, it's known to everyone in commercial real estate, hence the lack of thick conversions. At best, you can sometimes build an atrium, but that's a challenge and huge cost in its own right.
Reserving the center of floor plates may not be common but it happens.
The last conversion I saw in Houston has rentable storage space in the center of the floors.
It's a pretty cool conversion. I like how they converted some units into 2 floor lofts with 20 ft windows. Those let in massive amounts of light. I also didn't expect all the other amenities
Anyway, The floor plates were not very deep so I'm surprised they offered storage.
People love to store crap, so it might catch on. But you are right, is not a big money earner for condos, but public storage itself is becoming big business. They are becoming massive and popping up everywhere.
Office buildings have freight elevators handy, I'm surprised that some owners are not turning a quick buck by offering space as storage. There are massive buildings that have been sitting locked up for years.
The last thing I want in a city is a huge amount of college students and their faculty downtown. That whole scene can feel very elitish, w/ some people acting like they owned the town. It also puts a lot of first time drivers on the streets that are clearly a danger to pedestrians and bikers.
When I lived in Albuquerque, the college was situated about a mile or two from downtown, and that worked out a lot better. There were a lot of coffeehouses and restaurants around it, but good luck finding a parking space for them. Trust me, it can be annoying being around a lot of students every day, not to mention the 3 AM drunk ones throwing up on the lawn next door to your house. My friends and I could have been some of those people, LOL. So I'm not putting it down, just do it somewhere else.
In Daytona Beach, we saw a lot of undesirable behavior from college students, what w/ Spring Break, Black College Reunion, etc. Bike Week didn't help either, and produces this weird mix of intoxicated students and bikers that resembles a live, low budget, Roger Corman dystopian movie. It drives a lot of residents to stay somewhere else during those times, or just sell their home and move.
Last edited by stephenMM; 02-12-2024 at 04:31 AM..
Reserving the center of floor plates may not be common but it happens.
The last conversion I saw in Houston has rentable storage space in the center of the floors.
It's a pretty cool conversion. I like how they converted some units into 2 floor lofts with 20 ft windows. Those let in massive amounts of light. I also didn't expect all the other amenities
Anyway, The floor plates were not very deep so I'm surprised they offered storage.
People love to store crap, so it might catch on. But you are right, is not a big money earner for condos, but public storage itself is becoming big business. They are becoming massive and popping up everywhere.
Office buildings have freight elevators handy, I'm surprised that some owners are not turning a quick buck by offering space as storage. There are massive buildings that have been sitting locked up for years.
Yes a little resident storage near each unit can be a good thing, if the building is just a little larger than ideal. Even then it might be a drag on the pro forma.
Third-party storage can work for temporary building use, but it's usually not a quick buck.
--You're locking in a low-rent format for at least long enough to make the conversion work, probably via an operator lease, meaning you can't do high-value things with the building.
--The building will often need to be brought up to code, unless it's a basic tenant improvement with minimal shell and core work.
--It would need multiple large elevators, which older buildings often lack.
--It would need an easy loading dock and parking area that can handle multiple trucks plus regular cars, again something many downtown buildings lack.
The last thing I want in a city is a huge amount of college students and their faculty downtown. That whole scene can feel very elitish, w/ some people acting like they owned the town. It also puts a lot of first time drivers on the streets that are clearly a danger to pedestrians and bikers.
When I lived in Albuquerque, the college was situated about a mile or two from downtown, and that worked out a lot better. There were a lot of coffeehouses and restaurants around it, but good luck finding a parking space for them. Trust me, it can be annoying being around a lot of students every day, not to mention the 3 AM drunk ones throwing up on the lawn next door to your house. My friends and I could have been some of those people, LOL. So I'm not putting it down, just do it somewhere else.
In Daytona Beach, we saw a lot of undesirable behavior from college students, what w/ Spring Break, Black College Reunion, etc. Bike Week didn't help either, and produces this weird mix of intoxicated students and bikers that resembles a live, low budget, Roger Corman dystopian movie. It drives a lot of residents to stay somewhere else during those times, or just sell their home and move.
I generally disagree. Downtown's aren't spring-break Florida. Most colleges and college students aren't elitist. It's a downtown so parking next to the coffee shop isn't relevant.
A great downtown (or greater downtown area) is full of lots of types of people doing lots of different things at lots of different times--office workers, shoppers, residents, event-goers, and so on. That helps keep the sidewalks busy and allows are greater variety of retail to thrive. College students tend to be out and about at odd times, so the sidewalks are a little busier at 10:00 am on a weekday, dives can stay open later, and there's more general life.
Since we're talking more about annexes rather than major campuses, this effect is typically muted. But it's still a very positive factor in any downtown. That said, where major campuses do exist, they can help create dense urban districts of their own (ideally ones leavened with enough other uses to stay busy in the summers).
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