Urban Sprawl---A Blessing or a Curse? (freeways, population, Pittsburgh, issues)
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I HATE sprawl. Ugly, soulless, bland, big-boxed chains where you have to drive EVERYWHERE. It eats up our land, pollutes our air, requires us to buy more oil from countries like Iran who hate us, and is warming our earth. Disgusting.
The only way to attack it and prevent it is to increase the cost of oil in relation to it's actual cost to society. Look at Europe.
WOW...I honestly have to say that I never really looked at it that way. Although I'm thoroughly against Eurocentrism, I do believe that we should no longer rely on the car as much. Whatever has to be done in order for us to achieve that goal, I'm all for it. Maybe our cities should make more of an effort to turn what is now sprawl into a collection of foot communities.
URBAN SPRAWL is a curse--NO matter where it is. The strip malls, the "Cookie Cutter" houses, the "Gated Communities", the total lack of any character and sense of community.
Someone said it well when they said these cities have to start somewhere. I once posted on the Denver forum that a lot of the houses in one of the very hip areas of the city look alike, were built at approximately the same time, etc, just like the houses in the suburbs. Surprisingly, the person arguing against the suburbs in that thread agreed with me. Last weekend I was down in Denver at the botanic gardens and again noted the similarity in houses down there. What makes them unique, now, is the landscaping, the additions of porches, garages and the like, the different paint colors, etc. The older suburbs start taking on their own character, too, as the neighborhoods age. I am no fan of strip malls, but I do like having shops close to my home. Many old cities have some sort of gated communities. These are not brand new suburban ideas.
Why must we always associate city living with cramped quarters, no yards and no trees, no parks etc. I lived in a nice home with mature trees, a yard, near a lake, parks, shopping and 6 minutes from downtown. When I did look at homes in the suburbs most if not all did not have these amenites and the construction of all where cheap. Maybe if they built better suburban communities with jobs and amenities close by it wouldn't be such a curse. It's so funny how I read on this website people moving from suburb to suburb across the country but always seem to complain about traffic.
Why must we always associate city living with cramped quarters, no yards and no trees, no parks etc. I lived in a nice home with mature trees, a yard, near a lake, parks, shopping and 6 minutes from downtown. When I did look at homes in the suburbs most if not all did not have these amenites and the construction of all where cheap. Maybe if they built better suburban communities with jobs and amenities close by it wouldn't be such a curse. It's so funny how I read on this website people moving from suburb to suburb across the country but always seem to complain about traffic.
It's kinda funny, that's what some of the anti-suburb people say about the suburbs. Especailly the part about no trees and parks. Some (who have obviously never been in a suburb) even say there are no stores, or public buildings, which is clearly not true. Cheap construction is not limited to the suburbs. I've been a visiting nurse, and as such have seen the seamier side of a few cities.
Someone said it well when they said these cities have to start somewhere. I once posted on the Denver forum that a lot of the houses in one of the very hip areas of the city look alike, were built at approximately the same time, etc, just like the houses in the suburbs. Surprisingly, the person arguing against the suburbs in that thread agreed with me. Last weekend I was down in Denver at the botanic gardens and again noted the similarity in houses down there. What makes them unique, now, is the landscaping, the additions of porches, garages and the like, the different paint colors, etc. The older suburbs start taking on their own character, too, as the neighborhoods age. I am no fan of strip malls, but I do like having shops close to my home. Many old cities have some sort of gated communities. These are not brand new suburban ideas.
Right on, Pittnurse! I'm visiting back home in Denver for a couple of weeks now, and I was exploring the Cherry Creek North and Hilltop areas yesterday, where I haven't been for several years. I was totally blown away. Those 1940's era bungalows and 50's ranch homes are being bulldozed one by one and being replaced with custom built mansions, starting at 1 million $$ a piece. I did not even recognize the neighbhood-- everything is all brand new now. They are still making a conscious effort though to preserve as many trees as possible. It just goes to show that the way the suburban landscape looks today, when everything is first built, is not permanent. Not only will the landscaping mature and diversify, people will do rennovations and expansions, but whole neighborhoods can be rebuilt. It just goes to show that even the most "suburban" areas can eventually be morphed into "urban" areas, if the real estate demand is there.
Pittnurse also has another good point-- don't be so quick to villify strip malls. Some of the most authentic ethnic restaurants, family owned businesses, and unique establishments in both Denver and Phoenix are located in ugly, older strip malls-- not the high-priced boutique retro-urban developments. As you can see in a thread I started awhile back, "In Defense of Phoenix,", I think a lot of strip malls can actually be pretty cool.
^^^Of course I had to respond to someone making the comment about cities being concrete jungles, no parks and so on. As a realtor in the Seattle area I see first hand suburban sprawlsville. Your right pittnurse, not all suburbs are like that but many are.
WOW...I honestly have to say that I never really looked at it that way. Although I'm thoroughly against Eurocentrism, I do believe that we should no longer rely on the car as much. Whatever has to be done in order for us to achieve that goal, I'm all for it. Maybe our cities should make more of an effort to turn what is now sprawl into a collection of foot communities.
not just the car. the pavement, synthetic materials (plastics, e.g.), etc that go into the additional outlay associated with suburbia (bigger houses, more roads, cars, lawnmowers, ...) all are petroleum based. then there's always the water "needs" for all those lawns...
and btw, re some earlier posts, are we sure that suburbia is about individual choice more than the influences of the marketing and lobbying (of developers, chains, ... the auto and oil interests, for instance), and emphasis on consumerism and entitlement to having "whatever the jones just got"?
seems like a lot of this can have as much to do with mentality, growth, and demand in general.
Last edited by hello-world; 05-19-2007 at 01:44 PM..
I think the biggest thing is that in so many areas of this country people have no other option than living in sprawl-style development where a car is a requirement and walking anywhere is out of the question. There is the demand there, but alternate development types of housing are simply not available. Compare the prices of an average town-home in a walkable neighborhood with easy access to public transportation to your typical suburban tract home and you will see the later is normally SUBSTANTIALLY cheaper.
Why is this happening? Part of the reason is that developers since the 1950's are used to developing sprawl housing. Another reason is that oil has been under-priced in relation to its actual cost on society. Finally, our governments has indirectly subsidized this type of development through free highways and roads while largely ignoring alternative forms of transportation.
It's a sad situation but we only have our selfs to thank for the current situation we are in.
and btw, re some earlier posts, are we sure that suburbia is about individual choice more than the influences of the marketing and lobbying (of developers, chains, ... the auto and oil interests, for instance), and emphasis on consumerism and entitlement to having "whatever the jones just got"?
We are not all stupid out in the suburbs; we have not all been 'duped' into wanting to live there. Some of us like the larger yards (or any yard at all) and lower crime rates, to new a few advantages. If you look at city-data's own list of "Top 100 Best Educated Cities" you will notice most are suburbs of other large cities.
the point is not that suburbanites are "stupid". the point is that a) commercial interests can and do manipulate all of us - genius and "stupid" - for their profit, much as hollywood or "culture" can affect our tastes and our senses of beauty (and look back at some of things that we've thought of as good only to later cringe over it!) b) commercial interests are not necessarily thinking about the ecological (which of course includes us!) and other impacts of those larger yards, those larger houses, those larger TVs and big box stores, those larger commutes c) suburbs aren't inherently bad, but they're becoming so huge and pervasive these days, it seems like it might be worth taking a look at what the future may hold.
as far as education and intelligence go, don't worry: as far as I'm concerned, degreed people with big big brains are not necessarily "well educated", just as nondegreed people with few opportunities are not necessarily "poorly educated" or "stupid". i know degreed people that do little beyond think about and talk about "reality" TV, and nondegreed people that are so aware and astute i think they ought to run for president.
Last edited by hello-world; 05-19-2007 at 04:28 PM..
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