[Oriz]

And this is what comes out today:

The Best and Worst Run States in America: A Survey of All 50 - 24/7 Wall St.

Kind of nice to see 3 of our top 6 in the top 5.

And Vermont at #9. Of course, there's more to choosing a place than how it's being run.

BTW, mass is only 18, maine 29 and NH 31.

[Phorlan]

I found the original post totally misleading. Vermont is on planet Earth and there are many problem on planet Earth. This is not even close to being the worse place to live. I mean, not even close. Sure it's cold in the winter and there is what is called mud season. So what? Go check the mud season in Russia! As for the people. I find the people from the Northeast area of the US, Vermont included, among the most interesting Americans. I was born and raised in France, left France in 1990, I'm in the DC area now. I've lived in R.I for 7 years and in Illinois for 7 years. I've been to Vermont many times and would move back there in a heartbeat if I could find job there. And no, it's not the only place in the US where jobs are scarced. Common!

[Oriz]

Originally Posted by Sierrajeff

We lived there for a year and moved away too - but we still love much about Vermont, still own land there, and still expect to move back again some day.

Yes there are problems, but there are problems everywhere. We were surprised at the high cost of living (especially taxes and utilities); I've lived in other primarily rural areas (e.g., West Virginia) and typically found one of the benefits of living in such places was a *lower* cost of living. We were also surprised at the level of bureaucracy (state and town) - having lived both before and after in California (and San Francisco at that), I can say that the two are surprisingly comparable when it comes to intrusive paternalistic governments! And finally, the whole "four in the ground" (or variants thereof) got old fast. If I've chosen to invest in moving to and living in a place, I should at least be given the benefit of the doubt as to my desire to participate in and be a member of Vermont.

But there are innumerable good things, too. It's strikingly beautiful - as much as anywhere I've lived (and as noted, that includes places such as the Alleghany front and the California coast!). And for the most part people are friendly and helpful, if a bit reserved (but as an introvert myself, I've always liked Yankee reserve). The anti-growth rants could get old (and it was amusing to hear people protest a 2-lane bypass in Burlington, over fears of urbanization, as I sit here in a city of 800,000 that's still strikingly beautiful and has amazing access to unspoiled environments literally minutes away) - but the benefit of 40+ years of such anti-growth efforts was a preservation of the beauty that makes Vermont special.

And Vermont has led the way on so many things that have been (or should be) duplicated across the country - from bottle deposits to billboard bans to same-sex marriage, and potentially now to single-payer healthcare (please oh please let that work out!). I still shake my head when driving through a beautiful area, such as the Sierras or the Shenandoah Valley, and all I can see is billboard after billboard - Vermont really dodged a bullet on that one!

No place is perfect. I've lived in Phoenix - you want a boring, bland, fugly place to live, try Phoenix. And I love San Francisco, but OMG the bureaucracy and nanny state, and the filth,... and the cost of living!, make it a very trying place to live sometimes. (In fact nothing makes me daydream about our future home in Sharon more than a day full of annoying urban experiences here in S.F.!)

So, sorry it didn't work out for you. But don't damn an entire state and its people based on your unfortunate experience.

Originally Posted by Phorlan

I found the original post totally misleading. Vermont is on planet Earth and there are many problem on planet Earth. This is not even close to being the worse place to live. I mean, not even close. Sure it's cold in the winter and there is what is called mud season. So what? Go check the mud season in Russia! As for the people. I find the people from the Northeast area of the US, Vermont included, among the most interesting Americans. I was born and raised in France, left France in 1990, I'm in the DC area now. I've lived in R.I for 7 years and in Illinois for 7 years. I've been to Vermont many times and would move back there in a heartbeat if I could find job there. And no, it's not the only place in the US where jobs are scarced. Common!

Agree with both of you. The negativity about Vermont on this forum amazes me sometimes.

[Oriz]

Originally Posted by Phorlan

And no, it's not the only place in the US where jobs are scarced. Common!

Actually, now that I think about it, I probably wouldn't even say jobs are scarce in Vermont, or at least not Chittenden county which I admit is where I spend most of my time. HIGH PAYING jobs are, yes. But, I have spent a significant amount of time in my life in Milwaukee, Boston and Israel and Vermont is the first place where pretty much everywhere I go I see hiring signs. Sure, most of them are in the service sector and pay either minimum or just slightly above, but, if you're out there looking for a job and want to at least start with something you have that option, which you'd be surprised how many places don't.

But, the grass is always greener...

[ABQConvict]

There are 50 states and a "<Insert State Here>: The Most Horrible Place!" thread can be written for each one of them.

To take a twist on an old saying, 'there are no horrible places, only horrible people'.

Not to say the OP is a horrrible person, just horribly mismatched for Vermont.

[harpoonalt]

Bingo! There's a Jack for every Jill.

[mapmd]

Why do people move to relatively colder states and then say "The weather was just so awful in winter..."

Well boo hoo, what did you expect at 42-45°N and in the highlands?

And of course it's relatively poor. Did you not research the area? Were you expecting government jobs such as in the DC metro area?
Any mountainous area is going to have a limited economy (and don't say Denver, they're not IN the mountains, only against them on a high plateau), and I'm fairly sure Vermont's relies on tourism as a base.

Did you not research demographics before you left? If you did you'd know that Vermont is literally the Whitest state in the country, taking the crown from even the likes of North Dakota and Wyoming. Besides, a lot of people might consider that a good thing, even if you don't.

And who says the locals are afraid of "change"? Maybe they've considered cultural change and said "to heck with that, we like our community and family-oriented lifestyle" and to heck with cosmopolitan life.

And I'm not sure what you mean by not embrasing technology. I'm sure most people have many of the latest gadgets, and others would acquire them if they desired to spend their money on such trinkets. By the way, way to go into a Vermont thread to tell people how bad Vermont is. Nice little Parthian Shot on your way out the door.

[Klassyhk]

Originally Posted by UKWildcat1981

Vermont is the most boring place on earth but on the plus side of the nicest people in the world live in the state.

I've always thought it was Iowa until I went to North Dakota. In ND, I think there's something in the water. I've never been to a state where 99.99% of the population is EXTREMELY nice and polite. Iowa is second with 99.98%.

[swanstone1]

Originally Posted by MN1031

I was living in Vermont for a year, and let's tell you that it was the most horrible experience of my life. On the contrary to what they claim, it is one of the worst place you can live in the US. It is a poor state, the weather in winter is awful, the roads and other infrastructure are so poor, and the people are often into themselves and ignorant. It is a rural state, not developed at all, and it seems the local people want it so, and afraid of change, technology, development and openness.
If you are a new immigrant (particularly a non-white), keep away from Vermont. It is definitely not a place for you. Diversity is almost zero there, and you wish to find someone to talk to!
If you like to be isolated, do not need people, afraid of a diverse society, afraid of development, do not care about modern life and only enjoy of being in a remote natural reserve, then choose Vermont to live, otherwise really keep distance.
I could not survive there, and could not wait to get out! When I had an opportunity, you could not believe how fast I left that crappy state, and I assure you I never get even close to that forgotten land.
Thanks God I could escape after a year, otherwise I was psycho by now!

Well you vented and probably didn't do a lick of research beforehand. Life happens. So, the State doesn't work for you...? Leave. Hope you weren't shackled for that year and were just stupidly following a man. Guess what? Some people say the same about Manhattan, Paris, Houston, Waikiki beach......Lament your choices and they have nothing to do with the actuality of a State that a lot of people find quite pleasant. Go check the tourism boards for that one.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by MN1031

If you are a new immigrant (particularly a non-white), keep away from Vermont.

I'm kind of wondering how the heck a "new immigrant (particularly a non-white)" would end up in Vermont in the first place? ...and then complain about cold winters. lol