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As a new immigrant myself who "ended up" in Vermont(although technically I would be considered white), I can see their point, so I'm not offended. If you have not done your research before moving somewhere...don't complain...
My post had nothing to do with you or anyone being offended or not offended at the comment. That said, regional biases or jingoistic tendencies in given areas can and do exist, and some are more off-putting than others depending on what people have in their background to compare it to, and what they generally expect at fundamental levels. I see little difference between someone who is a new immigrant to Vermont from outside the US and and a new US migrant to Vermont. Not to mention it's on the border with Canada, through which some people migrate. I can't imagine why any fair-minded person would make the delineation in the first place, and I think that type of marginalization represents at least one aspect of what this person refers to in his/her experience with locals. Perhaps you're not bothered by that attitude, but others clearly are. The fact that a mew immigrant would "end up" or not end up in Vermont would run parallel to the reasons that any US citizen would. I would argue that most working people are not moving for pleasure but out of of necessity, or to seek something they believe will make their lives better. Sometimes those assessments are wrong.
Your comment about not complaining without having done "research" is a red herring. There are many aspects about a place that just cannot be experienced until spending a good chunk of time there, and people certainly do have every right to express their sentiments about the experience and complain, if they so choose. The whole purpose of this forum is for people to share their experiences and information; good AND bad. Hopefully those experiences can now be reviewed and considered by others as they do THEIR research. I certainly want to see the complaints and their related patterns as I do my research.
I was living in Vermont for a year, and let's tell you that it was the most horrible experience of my life. On the contrary to what they claim, it is one of the worst place you can live in the US. It is a poor state, the weather in winter is awful, the roads and other infrastructure are so poor, and the people are often into themselves and ignorant. It is a rural state, not developed at all, and it seems the local people want it so, and afraid of change, technology, development and openness.
If you are a new immigrant (particularly a non-white), keep away from Vermont. It is definitely not a place for you. Diversity is almost zero there, and you wish to find someone to talk to!
If you like to be isolated, do not need people, afraid of a diverse society, afraid of development, do not care about modern life and only enjoy of being in a remote natural reserve, then choose Vermont to live, otherwise really keep distance.
I could not survive there, and could not wait to get out! When I had an opportunity, you could not believe how fast I left that crappy state, and I assure you I never get even close to that forgotten land.
Thanks God I could escape after a year, otherwise I was psycho by now!
Research, research, research! We are looking into moving to the NEK. I have researched St. J for over 2 years. It is Vermont, how did you not know the winter would be harsh? I think people are ill-prepared. I believe life is what you make it. I lived in Martha's Vineyard for 5 months and I hated it but there were a lot of great things, it was just not for us. We would have never moved if the job my husband took had been forthcoming with pertinent information, which BTW-they always leave out because noone would ever choose to come there otherwise for teaching, ever.
Vermont is obviously more rural, which we are delighted about, my husband and I both grew up in small communities and we both like the idea of neighbors knowing neighbors, lots of little festivals, etc. I think next time you might want to think what you like and compare that to what is going to be available and you might be happier. You can't shame a state for obviously not doing enough research on your own.
Hope you are happy in your new, I am assuming much warmer and bigger city you have decided on. Ciao!
I was living in Vermont for a year, and let's tell you that it was the most horrible experience of my life. On the contrary to what they claim, it is one of the worst place you can live in the US. It is a poor state, the weather in winter is awful, the roads and other infrastructure are so poor, and the people are often into themselves and ignorant. It is a rural state, not developed at all, and it seems the local people want it so, and afraid of change, technology, development and openness.
If you are a new immigrant (particularly a non-white), keep away from Vermont. It is definitely not a place for you. Diversity is almost zero there, and you wish to find someone to talk to!
If you like to be isolated, do not need people, afraid of a diverse society, afraid of development, do not care about modern life and only enjoy of being in a remote natural reserve, then choose Vermont to live, otherwise really keep distance.
I could not survive there, and could not wait to get out! When I had an opportunity, you could not believe how fast I left that crappy state, and I assure you I never get even close to that forgotten land.
Thanks God I could escape after a year, otherwise I was psycho by now!
You get what you give , you seem to be happy to be gone and I'm sure they are happy you are gone .
I am a native Vermonter. With that said, I am biding my time until my 13 year old daughter graduates, so I can relocate. I live in Rutland county which is very repressed! I hope all my kids find life outside of VT more inviting. This is not meant to be a slam to the state by far. It has a lot of beauty and if I felt that I was getting ahead, it may not be all that bad. However, I feel like I'm in a rut. So much money to sustain oneself due to high taxes, heating costs, etc. I feel that I could live more comfortably down south and by this I mean financially and physically. I hate not being able to open my windows more months out of the year. I wish there were more opportunities for children to develop interests and a variety of things for adults to do. There is nothing in my part of the state to encourage personal growth and development without driving...which is not convenient or economical. So, I cannot wait to leave. (but come back for frequent visits)
I am a native Vermonter. With that said, I am biding my time until my 13 year old daughter graduates, so I can relocate. I live in Rutland county which is very repressed! I hope all my kids find life outside of VT more inviting. This is not meant to be a slam to the state by far. It has a lot of beauty and if I felt that I was getting ahead, it may not be all that bad. However, I feel like I'm in a rut. So much money to sustain oneself due to high taxes, heating costs, etc. I feel that I could live more comfortably down south and by this I mean financially and physically. I hate not being able to open my windows more months out of the year. I wish there were more opportunities for children to develop interests and a variety of things for adults to do. There is nothing in my part of the state to encourage personal growth and development without driving...which is not convenient or economical. So, I cannot wait to leave. (but come back for frequent visits)
You are a living argument for the proposition that it is not a bad thing to have our young people leave the state. It never hurts to find out what life is like elsewhere, and when one comes back, one can judge Vermont by broader standards. Best of luck to you!
To the Vermonters, I read somewhere that Vermont (crime-wise) is the safest state in the nation. You seem to have a great state - heck, keep it that way. Something seems to be working for you.
I am a native Vermonter. With that said, I am biding my time until my 13 year old daughter graduates, so I can relocate. I live in Rutland county which is very repressed! I hope all my kids find life outside of VT more inviting. This is not meant to be a slam to the state by far. It has a lot of beauty and if I felt that I was getting ahead, it may not be all that bad. However, I feel like I'm in a rut. So much money to sustain oneself due to high taxes, heating costs, etc. I feel that I could live more comfortably down south and by this I mean financially and physically. I hate not being able to open my windows more months out of the year. I wish there were more opportunities for children to develop interests and a variety of things for adults to do. There is nothing in my part of the state to encourage personal growth and development without driving...which is not convenient or economical. So, I cannot wait to leave. (but come back for frequent visits)
It refreshing to see some posts from Vermonters offering honest opinions instead of rabidly defending all forms of criticism. I think you might like some parts of the south. Culturally there are similarities to Vermont and yet, some southern states offer a better quality of life and some of the opportunities you referenced. I didn't enjoy living in the south, but I also didn't enjoy Vermont for similar reasons that have more to do with rural culture than anything else. Sadly, you're libel to get a lot of "don't let the door hit you..." comments from some here. That seems to be the prevailing wisdom here.
It refreshing to see some posts from Vermonters offering honest opinions instead of rabidly defending all forms of criticism. I think you might like some parts of the south. Culturally there are similarities to Vermont and yet, some southern states offer a better quality of life and some of the opportunities you referenced. I didn't enjoy living in the south, but I also didn't enjoy Vermont for similar reasons that have more to do with rural culture than anything else. Sadly, you're libel to get a lot of "don't let the door hit you..." comments from some here. That seems to be the prevailing wisdom here.
This really depends on which 'Southern' states you are talking about and in fact which areas of each Southern state as well. I think anyone with roots in a certain state of community will be keen on saying 'if you don't like it don't let the door hit you" I am not naive enough to think that Vermonters are the only ones that would feel this way.
You have to be realistic with your own life expectations. You have to take the good with the bad, there is always going to be bad and how you deal with the 'bad' shows your character anyway. Vermont has harsh winters, this is a given. Anyone moving that far North should realize this. Embrace it or hate it, that's your choice. In the South, which I am an 'expert' native on is HOT HOT HOT. I was born in Tulsa, Oklahoma, I live in what we call Green Country, which is the Northeast corner of Oklahoma. It is very beautiful here. We have TORNADOS to contend with, boy that is fun. Thankfully, the town I live in is in a small valley and has never had one per se, but surrounding country where a lot of people live have had a small one here and there. Vermont is rural. Never been there but probably no more rural than Oklahoma can be. We have A LOT of farmland.
My children's school is Sequoyah Schools, not to be confused with the school in Tahlequah, Oklahoma with the same name. He was the Cherokee Indian and Tahlequah is the Cherokee capital, so they named one of their schools that too even though I believe we were first lol. That doesn't matter but I wanted to give you the difference because I wanted you to google it. It is a school outside of the 'town' we live in, Claremore-Home of Will Rogers. There isn't a town for our school, it sits in the middle of the country. A great school, small, in the middle of the country. My point about the school is it is rural. Kids leave, get educations, and come BACK! Start businesses, our school is ONLY as good as it is because of our alumni and the commitment of our parents. It is good for kids to leave the nest, they will VERY MUCH appreciate the small town rural upbringing they had. Some return, some find lives else where and come home for holidays. This is what is great about America. I do not think that living in rural communities stifles a kids way in life, it is up to the parents and the kids. Up to the parents to teach them, guide them, nurture them, and not clip their wings but to let them soar.
"Better quality of life" I struggled with this comment. My husband as a High School teacher started out teaching (after 4 years part-time with 3 classes at Rogers State University they did not count for experience, nice of them) and making 30,000 a year. So minus your taxes, minus your health insurance. Take home maybe $1800.00 or so a month. My husband has been ill since July of 2013. Then minus the $7,000 in deductibles that have to be met for his insurance. Even with the cost of living in Oklahoma, how is that a livable wage? I stopped going to the University when he got sick. I am about 2/3 of the way done with school. No degree. Can't find anything in Claremore with a decent wage, unless it is factory work and after a very, very bad accident I can't stand on my feet for long periods of time anymore. So, that leaves driving to Tulsa, or Owasso. Owasso is only about 20 miles but most places in Tulsa are minimum 50 miles away. Even still you are competing with a ton of people for the same job maybe making $12 an hour. My point in all of this is the South, is not always a better quality of life. We have hardships, a lot of hardships. My husband speaks 5 languages. Oklahoma is not a bustling anything and trying to find jobs for his talents are VERY few and far between. We either have to go East or West. East is much closer to Italy (where he is from) and Europe in general. We choose to go to the East.
People and family values: are some of the BEST! We are smack dab in the bible belt. A lot of conservatives but a lot of liberal open-minded folks as well. We are kind, and helpful, and thoughtful. We have our issues but most will give the shirt off their back to someone else. I love this about the South. However, there can be a lot of judgment. Gay marriage for example. Holy Lord that is a hot topic. It is now legal in the state of Oklahoma. My personal opinion is we do not have the right to judge anyone, and the sanctity of my marriage is not threatened by the love two women or two men share. I know what Leviticus 19 says, it also says in the same chapter that we shouldn't wear wool with cotton and shouldn't sew crops of a different kind in the same fields. So, let us not pick and choose which things we follow in the bible and which we should not and it is NOT a goverment issue. It is a personal one between you and God or whatever you may believe. A lot of people around here DO NOT feel that way. Guns rights. Don't take a Southerners guns, don't even try! lol. However, if a gay family's home were to burn down, those same people against gay marriage would come together and help those people, well most of them would. There are always those few *@55holes* in every community who are hateful and judge everyone but themselves.
A lot of Southern states are poor, people have to look elsewhere for jobs. I think Oklahoma is a leading state in teen pregnancy, or it used to be, Go US! (Probably all those country roads and coal pit swimming holes!!) It is miserably, disgustingly HOT & HUMID. Nobody, enjoys 98% humidity when it is 100+ degrees outside. It is simply not enjoyable unless you have flung yourself in the lake somewhere. Speaking of lakes since I am full of random facts, Oklahoma has the most inland water mass of any state in the US. I think God decided to do that because it is so miserably HOT here in the summer. We get carried away with bugs. Unless you have your backyard tikis surrounding your outside cookout, which is hot & sticky and gross anyway, you will be eaten alive. Go for a hike, better check for ticks, and no checking for chiggers, you will KNOW you have them, don't scratch the microscopic little bastards just go deeper! We have the most GLORIOUS thunderstoms EVER. My husband loves them!
I would say that any state has a good quality of life, it is what you make it, there are good and bad in every state. I have lived in several other states, and have come back to Oklahoma for the time being. I think if native Vermonters left and came back, they would appreciate what they had much more, well, the ones that have difficulty with the 'issues' (which are all relative for any area) of Vermont. There are 50 states in the US, you don't like it, throw a dart at a map and go. You have that right; that's what is great about this country. Make a life where you want.
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