[RMESMH]

Originally Posted by Cabound1

I was commenting on the Public Ivy reference. UCSD, Penn State and UConn, who are more reasonable comparisons even back in the 70s, have never been considered “public Ivys”.

Honestly, outside of the top 50 or so universities and colleges combined, does it really matter what the ranking is? The top students aren’t going there.

The term "Public Ivy" was coined by Richard Moll.

The original sixteen Public Ivies, as Moll listed them in 1985:

College of William and Mary (Williamsburg, Virginia)
Miami University (Oxford, Ohio)
University of California (nine campuses as of 1985)
University of Michigan (Ann Arbor)
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
University of Texas at Austin
University of Vermont (Burlington)
University of Virginia (Charlottesville)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Ivy

[timberline742]

UVM has just suffered horribly from decades of poor funding. That's just the reality. The program I went to for one of my undergrad degrees is still strong, but its a small program. Overall though, while the campus has grown a bit since I went there (25 or so years ago), which I got a good handle on while visiting last weekend, the academic selectivity has declined. I wish that weren't true, being an alum, but it is. How the college is run (which in part explains the decline in ranking metrics), how fundraising is done, how community is built and promoted, is so very very starkly different (in a bad way) to other Universities I went to. Again, I say that with no pride. I wish it weren't not the case, but with the poor funding and the very high tuition, even for in staters (one of my nephews is paying the same for a private University as it would have been to be an in stater) and the out of state tuition is bonkers for the quality which pushes away the out of state students that were critical to keeping its ranking up. I'm thankful for my UVM education, I got an almost free ride, and my small program is well regarded, but overall. Le sigh.


(And "ghetto kids"? Barf)

[RobinG60]

Just a UVM observation, after weekend company.
We had a NJ nephew and his Maryland girlfriend visit on Saturday.
They are both juniors at Univ.of Vt.
Our nephew transferred after 2 years at UConn, his friend started at UVM.
Boy, what a couple great kids.
They love the school. They are involved in many school and community groups. One is studying marketing and accounting, the other double majoring in education and communications. They are both long time skiers and have have embraced their home away from home in the many years they have spent here.
They are both desirous of remaining in Vermont post graduation and are already determined and identifying options within their future degrees to hopefully make that happen.

Life is a curvy road. Who knows where they will end up.
But I just wanted to give an example of a couple enthusiastic, bright, ambitious young adults who love this state and their school and hope their future is here, having found the harried, helter/ skelter lifestyle in more lucrative $ states is not all its cracked up to be.

[Remy11]

Originally Posted by Cabound1

But by your way of reasoning, it has maintained its high SAT scores because it’s in a lily white state and doesn’t have to take on “ghetto kids” and their low scores, right?

Public Ivy? Since when? I grew up in northern New England in the 70s, went to an actual Ivy, and I’ve never once heard it referred to as a public Ivy. To consider it amongst Cal, Michigan, UVA, etc is disingenuous. Middlebury is the destination school in that state. Always has been, always will be.

Cabound,
I’m from the Boston area and “Public Ivy” is a common term used when describing UVM. I’ve heard it often from various people. Also, whenever I tell someone I went to college in VT, it’s always followed with “Nice! UVM?” Not a single person has ever mentioned Middlebury. I would also say from a Mass resident perspective, it’s definitely perceived as more prestigious than UNH. UVM has a certain cachet than UNH does not even if they attract similar students. This is mainly due to it being a ritzier, more picturesque campus with wealthier students and situated in a much better college town than Durham. Lastly, there is definitely a perception that it’s harder to get into than UNH. Whether that’s true, I don’t know. But the perception is there.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by Remy11

Cabound,
I’m from the Boston area and “Public Ivy” is a common term used when describing UVM. I’ve heard it often from various people. Also, whenever I tell someone I went to college in VT, it’s always followed with “Nice! UVM?” Not a single person has ever mentioned Middlebury. I would also say from a Mass resident perspective, it’s definitely perceived as more prestigious than UNH. UVM has a certain cachet than UNH does not even if they attract similar students. This is mainly due to it being a ritzier, more picturesque campus with wealthier students and situated in a much better college town than Durham. Lastly, there is definitely a perception that it’s harder to get into than UNH. Whether that’s true, I don’t know. But the perception is there.

You just have to look at SAT scores. Vermont is an average of 630 Math, 640 Verbal. UNH is 590/593. Maine is lower than that.

UMass and UConn are a bit higher. High population density states. College cost math. They’re far more selective than they used to be and their academic rigor has improved correspondingly. Middlebury is far more selective than the New England state schools.

When the whole public Ivy thing was first written about 40 or 50 years ago, UVM was used in the same list as places like UVA, William & Mary, UNC, and the California system. That’s no longer remotely true. UVM isn’t at that level. It’s not that UVM degraded. It’s that college cost math made those schools far more selective and their academics far more rigorous.

I started this thread a few years ago. I think what I wrote then is still true. UVM gets heavily penalized for poor racial and socioeconomic diversity. It doesn’t have a huge endowment fund to address that. In-state students in one of the whitest states in the country can’t possibly be racially diverse. Ranking by SAT score to get admitted, it’s probably ranked 60-ish with corresponding academics.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

I started this thread a few years ago. I think what I wrote then is still true. UVM gets heavily penalized for poor racial and socioeconomic diversity. It doesn’t have a huge endowment fund to address that. In-state students in one of the whitest states in the country can’t possibly be racially diverse. Ranking by SAT score to get admitted, it’s probably ranked 60-ish with corresponding academics.

I've among the Universities I've graduated from, two are flagship state schools. Another private.

UVM has BY FAAAAR the worst donor cultivation and alumni networking programs of them. It's really poor, and the fundraising reflects it.

[Remy11]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

You just have to look at SAT scores. Vermont is an average of 630 Math, 640 Verbal. UNH is 590/593. Maine is lower than that.

UMass and UConn are a bit higher. High population density states. College cost math. They’re far more selective than they used to be and their academic rigor has improved correspondingly. Middlebury is far more selective than the New England state schools.

When the whole public Ivy thing was first written about 40 or 50 years ago, UVM was used in the same list as places like UVA, William & Mary, UNC, and the California system. That’s no longer remotely true. UVM isn’t at that level. It’s not that UVM degraded. It’s that college cost math made those schools far more selective and their academics far more rigorous.

I started this thread a few years ago. I think what I wrote then is still true. UVM gets heavily penalized for poor racial and socioeconomic diversity. It doesn’t have a huge endowment fund to address that. In-state students in one of the whitest states in the country can’t possibly be racially diverse. Ranking by SAT score to get admitted, it’s probably ranked 60-ish with corresponding academics.

Hi Geoff,
I agree with everything you said; my comments were more aimed at Carbound. He or she said they were from NH where it doesn’t sound like UVM is highly regarded, but that’s definitely not the case in Massachusetts.

To be honest, I didn’t do my research in terms of SAT scores, but was merely going on perception and the cachet people feel it has. Basically, the things you can’t find from a Google search. Agree that it’s not up there with UNC and the California system, but it’s very highly regarded in the Boston area. People wouldn’t really bat an eyelash if you said you were going to UMASS or UNH, but seem impressed when you mention UVM. Just recently a friend on FB posted about taking her daughter to tour UVM, and there was comment after comment about what a great school it is. I haven’t seen that on too many other college-related posts at all. It definitely has an excellent reputation here in the Boston area.

[Guineas]

Lol UVM is where you go if you can’t get into a decent private school but don’t want to go to UMass Amherst or didn’t get into that either.

It’s no public ivy. It’s for rich out of state lily white parents in New England with too much money to spend and an ego bigger than UMass Boston or Lowell.

[Riley.]

Originally Posted by Guineas

Lol UVM is where you go if you can’t get into a decent private school but don’t want to go to UMass Amherst or didn’t get into that either.

It’s no public ivy. It’s for rich out of state lily white parents in New England with too much money to spend and an ego bigger than UMass Boston or Lowell.

You'd think it was Harvard the way some of them act.

[Remy11]

Originally Posted by Guineas

Lol UVM is where you go if you can’t get into a decent private school but don’t want to go to UMass Amherst or didn’t get into that either.

It’s no public ivy. It’s for rich out of state lily white parents in New England with too much money to spend and an ego bigger than UMass Boston or Lowell.

Guineas,
I got into three private schools that were all higher ranking than UVM, but still chose UVM. A high school classmate of mine transferred to UVM after a year at NYU. We both agree that UVM was a great college experience that served as an excellent transition between our very small town and the real world. I do think the location had a lot to do with it too.

I got into UMass Amherst as a safety, but in the back of my mind felt it was simply too large. Plus, there were quite a few kids from my high school there already and even tho I may or may not have seen them around campus, I wanted a fresh start at a college where nobody knew me and thus wouldn’t fall back in with past high school friends as a crutch. I would’ve had no problem going to ULowell or Boston, but wanted the experience of going away to college. I would have definitely been a commuter at both.

Our family didn’t have loads of money although there were PLENTY of rich kids there. It was nothing to see a 19 year old in a new Land Rover. That was absolutely not my pedigree. However, I took out loans and paid them back over time. My parents literally sat me down when the financial aid packets came in and said “you are going to be broke for a very long time if you go here”, but I was 18 and thought I knew everything. I was saddled with a lot of debt at 22 upon graduation and had to forego the apartment in Boston for a cheap one in the suburbs, but don’t regret the experience at all. I’m not trying to make UVM into some mecca of college perfection, but I happened to have a really fantastic college experience. I completely understand this may not be the case for everyone tho and at the end of the day it’s still a state school.