[jackmccullough]

Originally Posted by Remy11

I got into UMass Amherst as a safety, but in the back of my mind felt it was simply too large. Plus, there were quite a few kids from my high school there already and even tho I may or may not have seen them around campus, I wanted a fresh start at a college where nobody knew me.

I think this is an important factor. Kids graduating from high school in Vermont take UVM for granted, and it's kind of looked down on. My experience choosing colleges was pretty similar. Anyone who graduated from my high school (Tony Fauci's school) was guaranteed to get into Fordham, which is a very good school, but plenty of guys didn't want to stay in New York or go to a place they were guaranteed to get in, with the same guys and some of the same teachers.

There are plenty of schools that are good choices for everyone. Hard to say what the "best" school is for almost anyone.

[Remy11]

Originally Posted by jackmccullough

I think this is an important factor. Kids graduating from high school in Vermont take UVM for granted, and it's kind of looked down on. My experience choosing colleges was pretty similar. Anyone who graduated from my high school (Tony Fauci's school) was guaranteed to get into Fordham, which is a very good school, but plenty of guys didn't want to stay in New York or go to a place they were guaranteed to get in, with the same guys and some of the same teachers.

There are plenty of schools that are good choices for everyone. Hard to say what the "best" school is for almost anyone.

jackmccullough,
Are you sure you’re not reading my mind?! Fordham was one of the three private schools I got into—no joke! My dad really wanted me to go but I had my heart set on UVM at the time. Too funny! I sometimes regret not going in the sense that a) I love NYC and always hoped to live there at some point and b) the industry I’m in has far more job opportunities in NYC than Boston.

I sometimes wonder how my life would have played out if I went to Fordham instead.

[masssachoicetts]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

You're putting words in my mouth. UVM spends their public money on means-tested Vermonters. That's pretty much the whitest demographic on the planet. School finances ride on the backs of affluent out of state students paying among the highest out of state tuitions in the country. Only the three Virginia colleges and a few California colleges are higher. Without those out of state students, the university isn't viable. UVM doesn't have the money to game the ranking system by admitting academically viable poor minority out-of-state students. UVM has pretty much no endowment fund. Around $100 million. Bucknell ranks #120 for endowment funds with $800 million. Taxpayers would riot if scarce budget resources were directed at subsidizing non-Vermonters.



By the way, "Public Ivy" was a 1980's book title and the term was around in the 1970s. "Public Ivies: A Guide to America's Best Public Undergraduate Colleges and Universities". In that book, the list was a half-dozen California schools, Michigan, Virginia, William & Mary, UNC, Texas/Austin, Miami (Ohio), and UVM. The point of the book was that there were state schools with the feel and academic quality of the Ivies with much lower tuition. Not my problem if you're not informed.

The only public ivy is Rutgers, who literally was going to be an ivy and went public.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by Guineas

Lol UVM is where you go if you can’t get into a decent private school but don’t want to go to UMass Amherst or didn’t get into that either.

It’s no public ivy. It’s for rich out of state lily white parents in New England with too much money to spend and an ego bigger than UMass Boston or Lowell.

UVM was much harder to get into than UMASS Amherst when I went. UMASS was a low level safety that I didn't even bother applying to.

I think that has flipped quite a bit now though.

I went because it had the program I wanted and gave me the most aid.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by masssachoicetts

The only public ivy is Rutgers, who literally was going to be an ivy and went public.

Technically, it’s Cornell. Some Cornell undergraduate programs are state funded. I know the Agriculture school and the business school are.

A jillion years ago, public Ivy was used to identify public universities that gave you an Ivy-like experience with public school tuition. The 1980 list had UVM on it. Things have changed considerably in 40 years.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by timberline742

UVM was much harder to get into than UMASS Amherst when I went. UMASS was a low level safety that I didn't even bother applying to.

I think that has flipped quite a bit now though.

I went because it had the program I wanted and gave me the most aid.

When I was applying to colleges in 1976, UMass was awful. It’s where C students went to party. My father went to Amherst College and my sister was in their first female transfer class as a sophomore. I only applied to little New England liberal arts colleges because that’s what the family did. UVM was the only college I applied to that was bigger than my high school. I decided I wanted to go engineering track and that isn’t possible at an Amherst-Williams-Wesleyan or Bates-Bowdoin-Colby. Colby actually gave me a football scholarship. I was not anything close to the best football player in my high school class so go figure. Amherst was kind of automatic as a legacy. I didn’t get any UVM scholarships applying but I got a bunch of money as the high GPA in the electrical engineering department. In 1976-1977, tuition, fees, and room & board was $5k for out of staters so it was a lot cheaper than the good private schools. I don’t know what it’s like now but back then, elite employers like Bell Labs and HP recruited electrical engineering and computer science grads there. That’s like Google and Amazon now. And of course IBM but half my EE profs worked for IBM full time. Microelectronics was taught by a chip designer, for instance.

[Remy11]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

When I was applying to colleges in 1976, UMass was awful. It’s where C students went to party. My father went to Amherst College and my sister was in their first female transfer class as a sophomore. I only applied to little New England liberal arts colleges because that’s what the family did. UVM was the only college I applied to that was bigger than my high school. I decided I wanted to go engineering track and that isn’t possible at an Amherst-Williams-Wesleyan or Bates-Bowdoin-Colby. Colby actually gave me a football scholarship. I was not anything close to the best football player in my high school class so go figure. Amherst was kind of automatic as a legacy. I didn’t get any UVM scholarships applying but I got a bunch of money as the high GPA in the electrical engineering department. In 1976-1977, tuition, fees, and room & board was $5k for out of staters so it was a lot cheaper than the good private schools. I don’t know what it’s like now but back then, elite employers like Bell Labs and HP recruited electrical engineering and computer science grads there. That’s like Google and Amazon now. And of course IBM but half my EE profs worked for IBM full time. Microelectronics was taught by a chip designer, for instance.

GeoffD,

Wow! Tuition jumped considerably in the 20 years after you were there. I was there from '96 to '00 and tuition was 25k per year for out-of-state students. I believe it's close to 50k/year now. I wonder at what point it really skyrocketed?

In the mid-nineties, UMass wasn't really considered awful for in-staters, but it was most people's safety school at my high school (very small town 30 min. north of Boston) who wanted to go away to college. For those wanting to commute, the safety was Salem State College (now Salem State University). The people who went from my high school definitely partied hard at UMass, but they worked pretty hard as well.

[JGBigGreen]

When was Rutgers "literally" going to be an Ivy? Ivy League schools are all private. Rutgers became a public school before the Ivy League was formed. It is a "Colonial" school but there is zero historical evidence it was ever considered to be a part of the Ivies.

Originally Posted by masssachoicetts

The only public ivy is Rutgers, who literally was going to be an ivy and went public.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by Remy11

In the mid-nineties, UMass wasn't really considered awful for in-staters, but it was most people's safety school at my high school (very small town 30 min. north of Boston) who wanted to go away to college. For those wanting to commute, the safety was Salem State College (now Salem State University). The people who went from my high school definitely partied hard at UMass, but they worked pretty hard as well.

People at UVM partied hard too, but most I don't think lasted long. I was a STEM major, so first year or so were those big Chem 1/2, Bio 1/2, etc. Plenty of people came from small towns near the top of their classes, and couldn't deal. Plenty more probably could have, but were more attached to the red cups than a pen and notebook. The visibly huge difference was my when the snow appeared on the peaks. Then the early morning classes had a big decline in attendance. Those students didn't last long. I think half of my floor freshman year on redstone flunked out, kicked out, or were on probation. Probably more.

That's true for a bunch of places though. I didn't drink my first couple of years at school. I was too paranoid about not doing well and losing my aid, but that was probably for the best. I had my GPA up before the real classes (organic, etc) kicked in.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by Remy11

GeoffD,

Wow! Tuition jumped considerably in the 20 years after you were there. I was there from '96 to '00 and tuition was 25k per year for out-of-state students. I believe it's close to 50k/year now. I wonder at what point it really skyrocketed?

In the mid-nineties, UMass wasn't really considered awful for in-staters, but it was most people's safety school at my high school (very small town 30 min. north of Boston) who wanted to go away to college. For those wanting to commute, the safety was Salem State College (now Salem State University). The people who went from my high school definitely partied hard at UMass, but they worked pretty hard as well.

Yep. In September 1976, a $2,500 guaranteed student loan covered out of state tuition, fees, and room & board for the fall semester. The BLS inflation calculator says that’s equivalent to $12k today so a year of out of state college was $24k in 2021 dollars. It’s $57k now. Back then, the strong private schools in New England were almost double UVM’s out of state rates and the other state schools weren’t very strong. When “public Ivy” was coined, the short list of strong state schools was a really good value. It’s very different times now.

My undergraduate years, I borrowed half. I had academic scholarships for a chunk of it my last couple of years. I paid some myself from summer & Christmas break jobs. My father paid about 1/4 of it. I owed roughly an inflation adjusted $50k when I graduated. With the miracle of double digit inflation, the debt eroded away to nothing by the time I was in my late 20s. I paid off the balance because it was a nuisance to write the monthly checks.