[mascoma]

Originally Posted by harry chickpea

*shrug* you go to work for an employer and you say what the employer tells you to say. Chick-fil-A has compelled speech. They can't say "thank-you" but have to say "my pleasure" (even it it isn't.)

There were many customers when I was working that I wanted to address using certain words, but played by the rules and didn't. If coachy has a problem, that is a personal problem.

Private companies and employers can discipline or fire an employee for what they post on social media. But this is a school and it is part of the government. The government can't do that because it violates the 1st Amendment. In Pickering v. Board of Education (1968), the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Illinois public school teacher Marvin Pickering had a First Amendment right to write a letter to the editor published in the local newspaper that was highly critical of the school board. Pickering had criticized the school board for paying too much on athletics at the expense of academic. The VT Principal Tiffany Riley just won a lawsuit after being fired for criticizing BLM. I hope this one goes to court too.

[JGBigGreen]

Both of those cases dealt with speech outside of their school duties. It is well established those types of speech are protected under the first amendment. This is a coach who refused to follow school policy and refused to use the preferred pronoun for students. He did not indicate any strongly held religious beliefs in any of the articles or forums I've read or seen him speak so I doubt he'd prevail on any religious freedom claim.

Originally Posted by mascoma

Private companies and employers can discipline or fire an employee for what they post on social media. But this is a school and it is part of the government. The government can't do that because it violates the 1st Amendment. In Pickering v. Board of Education (1968), the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Illinois public school teacher Marvin Pickering had a First Amendment right to write a letter to the editor published in the local newspaper that was highly critical of the school board. Pickering had criticized the school board for paying too much on athletics at the expense of academic. The VT Principal Tiffany Riley just won a lawsuit after being fired for criticizing BLM. I hope this one goes to court too.

[JGBigGreen]

I haven't heard of a single women's group or any feminists in Vermont who are at all upset about the State's transgender policy.

Originally Posted by mascoma

HAWHAW. Call in and get cancelled? No way. Women's groups and feminists are going to have to fight this fight.

[atypicalLIer]

Originally Posted by JGBigGreen

I haven't yet heard of a single women's group or any feminists in Vermont who are at all upset about the State's transgender policy.

Fixed it for you

[mascoma]

Originally Posted by JGBigGreen

Both of those cases dealt with speech outside of their school duties. It is well established those types of speech are protected under the first amendment. This is a coach who refused to follow school policy and refused to use the preferred pronoun for students. He did not indicate any strongly held religious beliefs in any of the articles or forums I've read or seen him speak so I doubt he'd prevail on any religious freedom claim.

You're not referring to me by my preferred pronoun - MASTER of the UNIVERSE. Why not? My Lord would also suffice

Originally Posted by JGBigGreen

I haven't heard of a single women's group or any feminists in Vermont who are at all upset about the State's transgender policy.

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessa...sgender-agenda

[PamelaIamela]

Originally Posted by atypicalLIer

The law states that it is legal; but what is the actual percentage of transgender students vs cis? Not to be difficult, but isn't it easy to pass a law that won't actually require enforcement on a daily basis?

I'm not trying to minimize anything as I know 3 transgender people; one of whom was a boy I had a HS crush on. She and I have spoken about what her experience was like in HS and how she self-medicated to drugs and alcohol. The other transgender woman and my friend both were suicidal; how dreadful to be trapped in the wrong body.

Sorry, but no one is trapped or born in the wrong body.

The inexplicable and exponential rise in body dysphoria diagnoses, especially by teenage girls, is being fueled by factors which have yet to be determined.
Often the trans 'diagnosis' is more a product of the gender affirming model than a result of actual, natal discomfort, and is conflated by a wide array of co-morbidities like autism, sexual trauma, depression, self-harming, anorexia, etc., that are dismissed and therefore go untreated.

In the opinion of world-renowned child and adolescent psychiatrist Christopher Gillberg, professor of child and adolescent psychiatry at Gothenburg University, the unproven treatment of trans-identifying children is “possibly one of the greatest scandals in medical history”.
So maybe it's time we slowed our roll?

[mascoma]

Originally Posted by PamelaIamela

Sorry, but no one is trapped or born in the wrong body.

The inexplicable and exponential rise in body dysphoria diagnoses, especially by teenage girls, is being fueled by factors which have yet to be determined.
Often the trans 'diagnosis' is more a product of the gender affirming model than a result of actual, natal discomfort, and is conflated by a wide array of co-morbidities like autism, sexual trauma, depression, self-harming, anorexia, etc., that are dismissed and therefore go untreated.

In the opinion of world-renowned child and adolescent psychiatrist Christopher Gillberg, professor of child and adolescent psychiatry at Gothenburg University, the unproven treatment of trans-identifying children is “possibly one of the greatest scandals in medical history”.
So maybe it's time we slowed our roll?

It looks like they did in Sweden:

In light of above limitations in the evidence base, the ongoing identity formation in youth, and in view of the fact that gender transition has pervasive and lifelong consequences, the NBHW has concluded that, at present, the risks of hormonal interventions for gender dysphoric youth outweigh the potential benefits.
As a result of this determination, the eligibility for pediatric gender transition with puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones in Sweden will be sharply curtailed. Only a minority of gender dysphoric youth—those with the “classic” childhood onset of cross-sex identification and distress, which persist and cause clear suffering in adolescence—will be considered as potentially eligible for hormonal interventions, pending additional, extensive multidisciplinary evaluation.
For all others, including the now-prevalent cohort of youth whose transgender identities emerged for the first time during or after puberty, psychiatric care and gender-exploratory psychotherapy will be offered instead. Exceptions will be made on a case-by-case basis, and the number of clinics providing pediatric gender transition will be reduced to a few highly specialized centralized care centers.

https://segm.org/segm-summary-sweden...ysphoric-youth

[harry chickpea]

Originally Posted by PamelaIamela

Sorry, but no one is trapped or born in the wrong body.

The inexplicable and exponential rise in body dysphoria diagnoses, especially by teenage girls, is being fueled by factors which have yet to be determined.
Often the trans 'diagnosis' is more a product of the gender affirming model than a result of actual, natal discomfort, and is conflated by a wide array of co-morbidities like autism, sexual trauma, depression, self-harming, anorexia, etc., that are dismissed and therefore go untreated.

In the opinion of world-renowned child and adolescent psychiatrist Christopher Gillberg, professor of child and adolescent psychiatry at Gothenburg University, the unproven treatment of trans-identifying children is “possibly one of the greatest scandals in medical history”.
So maybe it's time we slowed our roll?

Sorry, but your premise is a complete simplistic gloss. Look up chimera. Look up hermaphroditism.

https://www.news-medical.net/health/...Intersex).aspx

I got to see a lot of strange things when I was working at VSH. 'nuff said.

Are there individuals with dysphoria that get caught up in the issue? I have little doubt of that. It is, however, a separate issue.

To put the subject in a perspective you might understand, if you considered yourself a Christian and were living in a country where 99.9% of the population followed Islam, would you still be a Christian, or just a confused Muslim? If you couldn't deny your Christian experience, you would be like an intersex person having to live in a sexed world in the body of a sex they considered incorrect. No offense meant in any way to either Christians or Muslims in the example, it is simply an analogy that might give insight.

Recognizing the existence of a group is a correction of past bias that was both false and hurtful. "Slowing the roll" implicitly re-affirms the past bias for the convenience of those who have a hard time facing facts.

[atypicalLIer]

Originally Posted by PamelaIamela

Sorry, but no one is trapped or born in the wrong body.

The inexplicable and exponential rise in body dysphoria diagnoses, especially by teenage girls, is being fueled by factors which have yet to be determined.
Often the trans 'diagnosis' is more a product of the gender affirming model than a result of actual, natal discomfort, and is conflated by a wide array of co-morbidities like autism, sexual trauma, depression, self-harming, anorexia, etc., that are dismissed and therefore go untreated.

In the opinion of world-renowned child and adolescent psychiatrist Christopher Gillberg, professor of child and adolescent psychiatry at Gothenburg University, the unproven treatment of trans-identifying children is “possibly one of the greatest scandals in medical history”.
So maybe it's time we slowed our roll?

I do not agree with allowing minors to start the process of changing gender -- especially when multiple studies have found the brain is not fully developed until the mid 20's.

My HS friend suffered greatly in the late 70's and early 80's as there were no resources for a male suburban teen who knew she was in a male body. With no support, 'he' married a classmate and they had a child. It wasn't until 7-8 years ago (over 3 decades after HS graduation) that 'he' started the process. She is now her late 50's and living a life filled with the happiness which had been delayed for decades.

Christine Jorgensen was a transgender pioneer decades earlier who left the US for treatment in Denmark as an adult. Adults can make a decision with long-term, life-altering implications. Children can not.

[mascoma]

In humans, hermaphrodites are caused by a variety of genetic conditions. These kids who are changing their gender don't have that condition in most cases.