[zendwa]

Riley has hit it on the head. I couldn't have said it better. And yes, Phorlan, from my recent visits and experience, Vermont is just America today. Maybe quieter, less angry, more relaxed, more rural, more liberal, but still a reflection of our country's current sensibilities. Nonetheless, for us, Vermont seems much "better" than Washington state or Colorado or other places where I've lived in the past couple of decades. (If I were younger, I'd probably be considering living in Japan again or Scotland or France or ...) Give it a try. We're doing the same and moving to Vermont this fall.

[Riley.]

Originally Posted by mikeugh

Yes, my sister lives in Newport. The community she made were through her children in the schools. I think it would be tough otherwise. Beautiful place though.

Yup....and therein lies the problem, at least for me. It IS beautiful here, even in winter But socially, I have felt isolated for many years. I think you have to be ready for that if you move here (it was something I did not expect because VT is touted as being so welcoming and accepting). But again, it depends on where you go and the people in that area. It's a real mixed bag here, imo.

[Riley.]

Originally Posted by Phorlan

Riley,
What you depict in your answer is what's happening in the US. This is exactly what I want to avoid. I don't feel like going back to France, I like the US, but I do have to acknowledge that most Americans have no friends, are lonely and if you do a search online you'll find out that this is becoming a huge problem. Even 60% of college students say they have no close friends!
My father in law, in his 80s, told me that was totally different in the 60 and 70s, so we're dealing with something that developed lately. I was hoping, I'm hoping VT would be different. Sure I could just stay with my friend and her close friends.

Hi. I'm aware that loneliness has become an issue for many in our society. My opinion is that social media is partly to blame, since you don't even have to leave your house to talk to people...well...anywhere, really! And you can even 'see' them with FaceTime, Zoom, etc. But I think having solid friendships is part of a living a fulfilling, happy life and science supports that.
A counselor once told me, though, that most people only have a handful of close friends. I'd settle for the handful I am lonely much of the time but try to fill my days with activities that I enjoy but I am also pretty social and I really miss group conversations, camraderie, laughter, shared interests, etc. When I am outside here during the warm months, in the hills, near the rivers, on the bike trail, I do feel less lonely, but still. Another personal observation is that in my working life in CA it was very team centric - we all worked very closely together and while we may not have socialized outside work (some did), we were tight when we were AT work....so that fulfilled something for me during those years and I never felt lonely. That was a 16 yr career. I never found that here. Different social dynamics and I was an outsider.
My husband, on the other hand, could care less. He is very happy in solitude and doesn't have the same needs for social interaction. (and ah!! I remember my growing up high school years in the 70s...I've mentioned this to most people when the topic comes up. All of us went out together, male and female, we partied, went to the beach, talked, danced, black and white, because I grew up in an international sort of place in the Canal Zone.... it was FUN!! kids don't seem to do that too much anymore, not that I can see.)

But DON'T GIVE UP especially if you really love the landscape here. I would try to find a town with a mixed demographic and things to do nearby. Burlington has gotten very wonky over the last 20 yrs, so you are probably right to steer clear of it, although there is probably more to do there besides nature stuff. Morristown/Morrisville/Stowe (way way pricey) are fairly vibrant.
Anyhow, lastly, since this post in interminable, politics may play a role in the social dynamic depending on the area. I used to like to talk politics, but I lean conservative (I am not an idealogue or Maga nut) but if people find that out, you get a bit of a cold shoulder.
Best wishes to you and I hope you let us know how things work out. If you move to my neck of the woods, let's meet for coffee!!

[Riley.]

Originally Posted by zendwa

Riley has hit it on the head. I couldn't have said it better. And yes, Phorlan, from my recent visits and experience, Vermont is just America today. Maybe quieter, less angry, more relaxed, more rural, more liberal, but still a reflection of our country's current sensibilities. Nonetheless, for us, Vermont seems much "better" than Washington state or Colorado or other places where I've lived in the past couple of decades. (If I were younger, I'd probably be considering living in Japan again or Scotland or France or ...) Give it a try. We're doing the same and moving to Vermont this fall.

absolutely!!!! as per my dear husband, it is better here than many of the places we visited when we were considering (and still are) relocating!!

[Riley.]

Phorlan, costs are also a fairly significant factor here in VT and something that must be weighed as well. You only spoke of social matters so I didn't get into that aspect of life in VT.

[Phorlan]

Thanks to all who replied.
What you all describe is what I see when I visit VT.
Sure it's better than most places, if not all places in the US today. I have family in Colorado, around Boulder, absolutely no charm and I wouldn't consider it.
The rest of the state is dismal.
So it seems that with its social isolation, VT is still the place to be.
Somebody mention prices. Yep, I'm aware of it. I'm aware that VT has become a speculation bubble that started with the fac that it is indeed the playground of wealthy people from Boston and NYC. The pandemic added another layer. I remember 10-15 years ago when my wife and I thought she would have a job with UMV and finally got one in UMD, in Maryland, we looked at small house with land and in the NEK we could find a cute little house on 50 sometimes more acres for less than 200K. This is so gone.
I still receive a newsletter from Zillow summarizing my search, and I see shacks, dump going for half a million and no land at all. So yes, I'm seriously being careful here. I have 5 more years to decide before making my move. I do suspect that within 5 years we might see a real estate crash.

[Riley.]

Originally Posted by Phorlan

Thanks to all who replied.
What you all describe is what I see when I visit VT.
Sure it's better than most places, if not all places in the US today. I have family in Colorado, around Boulder, absolutely no charm and I wouldn't consider it.
The rest of the state is dismal.
So it seems that with its social isolation, VT is still the place to be.
Somebody mention prices. Yep, I'm aware of it. I'm aware that VT has become a speculation bubble that started with the fac that it is indeed the playground of wealthy people from Boston and NYC. The pandemic added another layer. I remember 10-15 years ago when my wife and I thought she would have a job with UMV and finally got one in UMD, in Maryland, we looked at small house with land and in the NEK we could find a cute little house on 50 sometimes more acres for less than 200K. This is so gone.
I still receive a newsletter from Zillow summarizing my search, and I see shacks, dump going for half a million and no land at all. So yes, I'm seriously being careful here. I have 5 more years to decide before making my move. I do suspect that within 5 years we might see a real estate crash.

You are probably well aware that VT funds its education system via the property tax. In addition to that, you pay town taxes as well. We've never quibbled over the town tax which is always reasonable, thoughtfully considered by the select board, and considerably less than the education tax. The education tax is driven by some formula that most people don't understand and is primarily directed by state law and teacher union contracts. (if I am wrong someone please correct me). That said, there is a 'homestead exemption' that you can apply for that can reduce your education tax burden based on income. That is the only benefit, to my knowledge, that retirees might receive, but even there, non-retirees are eligible for the same reduction.
Vermont also taxes all income, including social security, although I think there is some initiative going to exempt military pensions.

The real estate situation in the last 3 yrs is another story and I've gone on too long already. Much to consider if retiring to VT. If you are fairly well off financially, though, you will like fare well.

[zendwa]

Interesting comments. When I lived in a small(er) Colorado mountain town (pop 7,000 when I moved there, triple that when I left 20 years later), I probably had a hundred friends. A dozen of whom I would consider close friends. Yet on retrospect, all were “activity” friends – skiing, biking, hiking, etc. A decade later, essentially none have stayed in touch (although I tried), except for maybe a once-a-year hello on FB. I’d love to have even a tiny sliver of that friendship community again, but I doubt it will ever happen. Even without that, and even with the VT tax/cost situation (we aren't wealthy), it seems the best option for this last stage of my life. Maybe we'll all meet somewhere down the road.

[Phorlan]

Let me tell you, France is a mess, I mean a total mess. I was born and raised there, I spent the first 28 years of my life there and I'm looking for a time when I won't have to travel to go there to see family and the few friends left.
Out of curiosity I did a google drive ( you know you drag the little yellow guy on a map) in Japan. Wow! The country side in Japan is amazing! I had no idea how beautiful and peaceful that was and they have real mountains. Yes, I can see why anybody would consider living there. I did explore Sweden, which know a little bit, and it seems to be one of the most boring place on earth. Stockholm is interesting, but the country side is boring and these people are not socia at all! So what's left, Vermont?

[Phorlan]

Those are called acquaintances, not friends.