[Riley.]

We are in a bit of a Catch 22 here, too. We have a large aging population, many retirees. If they were to give tax breaks to that group, they'd lose out on a big chunk of change, I think. Every penny of retiree's income is taxed, even Social Security. So there's that.
If you can keep up with the demand, many people will just stay, for reasons we've discussed in other VT threads, but I believe those people have fairly comfortable retirement funds.

Other states may be more tax friendly, but at what price? overcrowded, crime, higher 'other' costs, etc.

I've been conflicted about this for much of my time here. sigh

EDIT: this should probably be moved to the tax complaint thread.

[nebloke]

Originally Posted by Phorlan

I see, the OP is probably a moron. Of course. And of course the people who conducted the study are also morons, as somebody implied.
I'm not even obsessed a tiny bit by the Southern States. Not in the least. If I'm obsessed at all it can be summarized by this: I don't care about them, I don't and won't go there.
What I meant is NOT that VT is like the South. I meant that AS FAR AS GUNS DEATH it had the same dynamic. Can you see that in my original post?
Is it legit to wonder why NH, which has as many guns are VT doesn't have the same dynamic? Is that legit to wonder why or it's actually forbidden to wonder about this and if I do it makes me a weirdo? How come Maine, which has even more guns, I'd say, since the laws are more relaxed, has a weaker rate of suicide by guns?
Geeez, guys, all I wanted is to have somebody's opinion on this as we look at the study and the other neighboring states and some southern states, for comparison, not because I'm obsessed with them.

Why won't you go there? It sounds like you are highly hung-up on stereotypes. If so, that is incredibly closed minded.

I'm intimately familiar with both the south and Vermont. I've owned a 2nd home in VT for 20 plus years and have been visiting it for the past 45 years.

Both of my parents are from south Alabama and I was born in Mobile. When I was 2 months old my father was transferred to NYC. With respect to the ignorant southerner stereotype, my father ultimately rose to the level of executive vice-president, managing 5 divisions of a fortune 100 company headquartered in NYC.

My best friend growing up in NJ had a similar story, his family on both sides were from Mississippi. His father (another ignorant southerner) got a job with Bell Labs in NJ after earning his phd at MIT and was a pioneer and world renewed scientist in the field of digital speech processing. You might have heard of siri? He received the National Medal of Science, presented at the White House by the president of the United States.

We are frequent visitors to Ole Miss, my father's alma mater and where many of my best friends cousins went to school. We stay at one of his cousin's football weekend house there in Oxford. His cousin is a surgeon. His uncle was a surgeon and several of his other cousins are also medical doctors or have a phd in something else.

The stereotype of ignorant southerners is just that, a stereotype. Just like the stereotype of all Vermonters being ignorant hillbillies.

The south is stunning in many parts, the gulf coast of Alabama, which once was a secret, has some of the most beautiful beaches in the county. I've been there almost every year of my life for the past 60 years. My family has owned a home there since the 70s.

[NYLIER]

Originally Posted by stephenMM

I think that no state that far north is anything like the Southern states, in any manner. I was up in Boston once and they were rude beyond belief. You never see that down here. And the three months I was in Belfast, Maine w/ a Yankee girlfriend, people would not talk to you, period. When I mentioned it to someone there they said they didn't talk to them as well. It's just Yep or Nope until you've lived there 10 or 20 years.

Just to check, I called my oldest son who is up in Vermont temporarily for work. He said there were guns of course, but mostly for hunting.

Most folks in the South have them in the house for protection, so we're used to them being around. We have quick tempers (all that Skotch Irish blood) so they stay in the house. The old saying is that a Southerner will be polite right up to the point where they kill you. We'll take it for a while....and then we won't.

In all my years in some very large market research companies, I learned you can make statistics tell people exactly what you want them to. It all depends on how the questions were correlated and how they were asked. Never knew anyone who used a gun to kill themselves, it was usually hard livin, cancer, car wrecks or smoking. Only knew one person in my entire life who killed themselves, and that was w/ a rope, which sounds like a lousy way to do it.

I have to agree with you as far as the rude people up this way but in Vermont, there is no limit to how long you live here. It also depends on where you live. People say New Yorkers are rude. I live in VT, but love to go over the border to the Lake George area because the people are so much kinder over there. And they smile, which I don't see too much in VT. Probably because they are struggling financially.

I do feel Vermont is a lot like southern states but not in a good way. Take the worst type of people, I think they call them "rednecks" down south, and put them in less affluent towns in Vermont, and you will feel like you live down south.

[NYLIER]

Originally Posted by Riley.

I think you can blame much of VT's crumbling on the state legislature. But I could be wrong.

We're gonna see what happens with this year's projected tax hikes. If it's as ugly as it sounds, I am outta here.

I read an op-ed one of the superintendents submitted to one of the local papers. He stated that towns such as Stowe will see property taxes going up 24% and Elmore will see 29%. 2The school administrations and boards are stating the rise in taxes is "for the children". Well for a state that is the 3rd highest in property taxes, our children are failing and no amount of money is going to change that until this gov't wakes up and does an overhaul of the school system. It will never happen though.

So Riley, you are 100% correct about getting out of Vermont. I refuse to see my money wasted this way. I contacted the Agency of Education for the assessment test results for 2023. A few examples of the state test results are: 3rd grade Math, 62.81% Below Proficiency, 4rd grade Math, 65.1% BP, 5th grade English, 49.8%BP, 5th grade Science, 55.55% BP.

In my district, Castleton Elementary School, 86.67% of the 3rd graders failed the Math test and 73.53% failed 5th grade Science. This is what we pay for every year, teachers being rewarded for NOT educating the students.

I'm tired of this gov't wasting our money. I pay too much and work too hard. I am going to move to a state where I'm not screwed by my gov't. I'm screwed enough by the federal gov't. All the money they have given to illegals and other countries is insulting to every American. They could have made every family in this nation a million and had money left over to help others. I just read that Florida is looking into cutting out property taxes. No property tax or income tax?!! Wow!

[Riley.]

Originally Posted by NYLIER

I read an op-ed one of the superintendents submitted to one of the local papers. He stated that towns such as Stowe will see property taxes going up 24% and Elmore will see 29%. 2The school administrations and boards are stating the rise in taxes is "for the children". Well for a state that is the 3rd highest in property taxes, our children are failing and no amount of money is going to change that until this gov't wakes up and does an overhaul of the school system. It will never happen though.

So Riley, you are 100% correct about getting out of Vermont. I refuse to see my money wasted this way. I contacted the Agency of Education for the assessment test results for 2023. A few examples of the state test results are: 3rd grade Math, 62.81% Below Proficiency, 4rd grade Math, 65.1% BP, 5th grade English, 49.8%BP, 5th grade Science, 55.55% BP.

In my district, Castleton Elementary School, 86.67% of the 3rd graders failed the Math test and 73.53% failed 5th grade Science. This is what we pay for every year, teachers being rewarded for NOT educating the students.

I'm tired of this gov't wasting our money. I pay too much and work too hard. I am going to move to a state where I'm not screwed by my gov't. I'm screwed enough by the federal gov't. All the money they have given to illegals and other countries is insulting to every American. They could have made every family in this nation a million and had money left over to help others. I just read that Florida is looking into cutting out property taxes. No property tax or income tax?!! Wow!

I read the same article and you and I have spoken about the situation with the education tax. The big story today is the legislature is 'scrambling' to make some adjustments to mitigate the tax impact of Act 127.

The test results you share should be evidence enough that we are sure NOT getting what we pay for. What a disgrace.

The state will never do anything for retirees either, because being a large part of the population, we finance their ill-conceived initiatives.

I'll be exploring other areas too. And to think I put an expensive new deck on the house. AND a roof!! oh well, I'll sell high and take my $$ somewhere else, somewhere I acn keep more of what I have worked and saved for.

[jackmccullough]

It was hard to read too much because the print and maps were so tiny.

Still, why is this any surprise? Firearms are the most lethal means of committing suicide, so even if the prevalence of suicidal ideation is uniform, incidence of gun ownership is likely to lead to a higher rate of successful suicide.