If you are down on VT, why do you come to this forum? (Burlington: lease, houses)
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The same thing goes on on the LI Board. People leave LI for what they feel are greener pastures, better opportunities, lower taxes -- plus many other reasons. Some come back and post on the LI board in a considerate manner in order to help potential newcomers see some of the drawbacks, while others come back to the LI Board to slam those of us who remain here by suggesting we are stupid for staying put. One man's greener pasture is another's nightmare.
Another scenario which plays out with negativity on many of the boards is the blanket statement. Vermont is made up of many small towns, tourist areas and a few small cities. What works in Burlington might be less than desirable in Townsend. Same for LI -- many newcomers have no idea that it is 120 miles long, and has many different areas from urban to rural. One nasty person stating an area is 'crime-infested' or 'congested' does a tremendous disservice to the remainder of the areas which most certainly are not. My home here, my community looks like it should be in New England and not on LI. Yet when we moved to LI, we lived in America's first suburb: Levittown. Levittown and Stony Brook are two very different locales.
Across the boards, people who offer the upsides and downsides to an area in a concise, non judgemental fashion are most helpful for a newcomer. Once it starts going to extremes -- naysayers and cheerleaders -- then the information loses credibility.
Kind of late in responding to this thread due to being frequently gone preparing for the upcoming deployment that nobody seems to notice here in Vermont despite the fact that 1.500 of us will be gone in a few months. As to the question of being down on Vermont. It's not really being down on Vermont as a whole, but it is being down on a system which crushes us economically. For those that read these forums consider it good that you can get both the good and bad, because if all you got were just one side then how could you base your decision and research on possibly relocating here. There is a lot of truth from both sides, it just gets confusing at times to try and figure out which "truth" might realistically apply to your own personal situation. Good luck to all.
Kind of late in responding to this thread due to being frequently gone preparing for the upcoming deployment that nobody seems to notice here in Vermont despite the fact that 1.500 of us will be gone in a few months.
Not sure where you are but in Rutland there's frequent talk of this deployment. Wishing you safety and gratitude.
I must disagree with the OP who said this forum is full of bashers and negative folks. I continue to frequent this forum because I found the opposite to be true - the conversation is always civil, which doesn't mean there can't be disagreement. Have you visited other forums at all? Some are truly ugly in regards to the vitriol spouted by those who hate their current location, or the one they just left.
Let's face it, when you have a state with extreme weather of any kind, there's going to be detractors. Prolonged cold and snow is not for everyone, and I really think that, all other things being equal, if Vermont had less severe winters, it would be a far more populous (and popular) state. Yes, even with the high taxes. Look at what we put up with here in California, and it's largely due to the great weather, IMO.
I disagree to a point. Reading these forums has made me want to move to Vermont more than anything else (aside from visiting of course). I've been to VT all times of the year and it's honestly no worse than southern New England all things considered (at least not when you talk about the weather).
On any web forum, you're going to get the people who have nothing better to do than to spew garbage. You learn to ignore those people for the most part. You get people who spew nothing but love. You also learn to ignore them for the most part. Then there's the middle ground. You've got the people who can constructively criticize and the people who can constructively praise. Those are the ones you listen to. Finally, you take all of that, throw in a little of the more thoughtful spewers and you've got yourself a pretty good picture.
I found it funny reading about the "real Vermonters" who hate newcomers. I was a newcomer to RI about 6 years ago. In fact, I'm still a newcomer. People here feel that if you weren't born here or lived here for 20 years, you should have no say. I say to them that the minute you move to a new place, you're a resident and you deserve equal say to the people who lived there for 50 years (this came up in a neighborhood meeting here recently, I basically put the people who lived in the neighborhood for 40 years in their place because it had to be done).
But what I find funny is that this thread even exists. You need look no further than any other state. They all have their problems. Vermont is not special in that sense (unless people need to feel like their problems are special). I'm currently living in the state with the highest unemployment in the country and I still think it's a great place to live overall. We have our problems, but if you look past them, you can really enjoy living here.
I disagree to a point. Reading these forums has made me want to move to Vermont more than anything else (aside from visiting of course). I've been to VT all times of the year and it's honestly no worse than southern New England all things considered (at least not when you talk about the weather).
On any web forum, you're going to get the people who have nothing better to do than to spew garbage. You learn to ignore those people for the most part. You get people who spew nothing but love. You also learn to ignore them for the most part. Then there's the middle ground. You've got the people who can constructively criticize and the people who can constructively praise. Those are the ones you listen to. Finally, you take all of that, throw in a little of the more thoughtful spewers and you've got yourself a pretty good picture.
I found it funny reading about the "real Vermonters" who hate newcomers. I was a newcomer to RI about 6 years ago. In fact, I'm still a newcomer. People here feel that if you weren't born here or lived here for 20 years, you should have no say. I say to them that the minute you move to a new place, you're a resident and you deserve equal say to the people who lived there for 50 years (this came up in a neighborhood meeting here recently, I basically put the people who lived in the neighborhood for 40 years in their place because it had to be done).
But what I find funny is that this thread even exists. You need look no further than any other state. They all have their problems. Vermont is not special in that sense (unless people need to feel like their problems are special). I'm currently living in the state with the highest unemployment in the country and I still think it's a great place to live overall. We have our problems, but if you look past them, you can really enjoy living here.
Not if you spent time and money on a college degree only to hope for a labor job paying about 1/2 of what it takes to live in the town you grew up in. Can't really look past that.
Not if you spent time and money on a college degree only to hope for a labor job paying about 1/2 of what it takes to live in the town you grew up in. Can't really look past that.
Call it VT bashing if you must. But the economic reality of VT is harsh and it would be unfair to hide that from potential newcomers. The economics are disproportionate to what folks experience in CT, MA, NY, NJ. It is hard to see just how bad it is even visiting and knowing folks that live in VT. Give it a go if you want, but be forewarned that financially VT is tougher than where you are now.
I disagree to a point. Reading these forums has made me want to move to Vermont more than anything else (aside from visiting of course). I've been to VT all times of the year and it's honestly no worse than southern New England all things considered (at least not when you talk about the weather).
On any web forum, you're going to get the people who have nothing better to do than to spew garbage. You learn to ignore those people for the most part. You get people who spew nothing but love. You also learn to ignore them for the most part. Then there's the middle ground. You've got the people who can constructively criticize and the people who can constructively praise. Those are the ones you listen to. Finally, you take all of that, throw in a little of the more thoughtful spewers and you've got yourself a pretty good picture.
I found it funny reading about the "real Vermonters" who hate newcomers. I was a newcomer to RI about 6 years ago. In fact, I'm still a newcomer. People here feel that if you weren't born here or lived here for 20 years, you should have no say. I say to them that the minute you move to a new place, you're a resident and you deserve equal say to the people who lived there for 50 years (this came up in a neighborhood meeting here recently, I basically put the people who lived in the neighborhood for 40 years in their place because it had to be done).
But what I find funny is that this thread even exists. You need look no further than any other state. They all have their problems. Vermont is not special in that sense (unless people need to feel like their problems are special). I'm currently living in the state with the highest unemployment in the country and I still think it's a great place to live overall. We have our problems, but if you look past them, you can really enjoy living here.
I wouldn't say that native Vermonters "hate" newcomers, but they don't always trust them. The state has changed so much in the past few decades. The native Vermonters fell the state they grew up in and the state they always had control over is not theirs anymore. The majority of the population is made up of transplants and many of their views have been imposed(some good and some bad) on the state. Just look at the political picture in Vermont as an example. The state in many of the rural areas that are still made up of natives have a conservative approach, but in areas like Rutland and Burlington, where the majority of the population lives have a very liberal approach. Go to Burlington and no one will care where you came from because most of the people that live there are from somewhere else. If you went to an area where there are more Vermonters then you may sense that bit of uncertainty. It could be anything from being called a flatlander or a subtle as asking if you are a Vermonter or if you are from out of state. I have lived here for over fifteen years and depending where I am depends on how I am welcome. In Burlington I feel right at home, but when I go to my place in Brookfield, I don't always get a warm welcome everywhere I go.
This forum is no different than any other. What many have to realize is that people on the Vermont forum don't go and read another states forum unless it will have some impact on them. The people who have something to say, whether it's positive or negative do so because it impacts them. Many may not have lived in another state or may not have lived in another state in a long time. In just a decade in Vermont we have gone from a very affordable state to one with a budget that is in serious trouble. A state with budget problems will most likely mean even more taxes. Incomes have never been great, but property taxes in my case were well under $1000 and I purchased a 4 bedroom home with a three car garage and 12 acres of land for slightly more that $100,000 just 15 minutes from Monpelier. You could easily survive on a small income with prices like that. In a little over ten years the price of the home tripled, the taxes tripled and the income has hardly keep up with inflation. If you are just moving here now, you don't have much of an idea on how things have changed in such a short period of time. It does sound like people are being petty with their complaints, but many people are struggling to keep their heads above water outside of this bad economy.
I wouldn't say that native Vermonters "hate" newcomers, but they don't always trust them. The state has changed so much in the past few decades. The native Vermonters fell the state they grew up in and the state they always had control over is not theirs anymore. The majority of the population is made up of transplants and many of their views have been imposed(some good and some bad) on the state. Just look at the political picture in Vermont as an example. The state in many of the rural areas that are still made up of natives have a conservative approach, but in areas like Rutland and Burlington, where the majority of the population lives have a very liberal approach. Go to Burlington and no one will care where you came from because most of the people that live there are from somewhere else. If you went to an area where there are more Vermonters then you may sense that bit of uncertainty. It could be anything from being called a flatlander or a subtle as asking if you are a Vermonter or if you are from out of state. I have lived here for over fifteen years and depending where I am depends on how I am welcome. In Burlington I feel right at home, but when I go to my place in Brookfield, I don't always get a warm welcome everywhere I go.
This forum is no different than any other. What many have to realize is that people on the Vermont forum don't go and read another states forum unless it will have some impact on them. The people who have something to say, whether it's positive or negative do so because it impacts them. Many may not have lived in another state or may not have lived in another state in a long time. In just a decade in Vermont we have gone from a very affordable state to one with a budget that is in serious trouble. A state with budget problems will most likely mean even more taxes. Incomes have never been great, but property taxes in my case were well under $1000 and I purchased a 4 bedroom home with a three car garage and 12 acres of land for slightly more that $100,000 just 15 minutes from Monpelier. You could easily survive on a small income with prices like that. In a little over ten years the price of the home tripled, the taxes tripled and the income has hardly keep up with inflation. If you are just moving here now, you don't have much of an idea on how things have changed in such a short period of time. It does sound like people are being petty with their complaints, but many people are struggling to keep their heads above water outside of this bad economy.
What you say is exactly how it is pretty much everywhere. RI natives don't like newcomers. In places like Providence where most of the colleges are located, you have a different experience (though the natives that live here feel they should be tended to before the transplants). Providence natives wish it was the way it used to be, but don't want to see Providence improve or become a bigger city (it was once a much larger city). Many people want to see it become more "suburban" (my opinion of those people is move to the suburbs if you want to live in one). NIMBY-ism is pretty prevalent here, too.
Housing prices jumped just about everywhere in that period of time. I work with people who bought houses in RI (one with a waterfront or near-waterfront property with beach rights) for under $100k. Many of their houses were valued at well over $300k. I lucked out in that I just bought my house as property values plummeted. I was able to buy cheap, though it still isn't what it was 15 years ago. Now, I don't know if they jumped more in VT than they did elsewhere, but it seems about the same. Property taxes are the biggest difference, but that's how the towns keep running especially small towns that don't see a lot of businesses.
What I've known about VT is that a whole bunch of neo-hippies are moving in (exaggeration, but they tend to be more liberally minded) while the natives tend to be more libertarian (conservative is different). They just want the government to stay out of their lives and reduce their taxes at the expense of, usually, social programs.
Maybe RI is not the state to compare because we are in a similar boat. Our property taxes aren't that high, but sales tax is at 7% with local service taxes adding another 1% to that when you're dining out or staying in a hotel. We don't have any companies coming in (people complain about it being difficult for businesses here, some say it's not that bad, we do have a lot of small tech startups). The problem here (though the local "progressives" disagree) is the unions. They're everywhere and it's impossible to get rid of deadweight. Our state government is bloated, and the same can probably be said about the city government. There are too many employees doing too little. And corruption, though not as widespread as it was during the Cianci days, is still present.
This is why I'm saying that much of the problems in VT are not limited to VT. It may seem that way, but those same problems exist all over the place.
Jim we know RI isn't going to win any prizes for economic vibrancy, but what folks are trying to point out is VT is worse. Small old population crumbling infrastructure the copper phone lines are failing due to age and their is no money or will to replace them. Burlington has Fiber but their fiber consortium is on the ropes. The roads take a toll on cars(new tie rods every year for some of us) the weather is harsh on the houses 30 year lifetime house paint is good for maybe 5 years if you are lucky. Lots of little things that add up. Throw in the dismal wages and work opportunities and it is a tough road to follow. Frankly I could put up with everything if there was a vibrant economy. There isn't and there will not be a 'recovery' in VT. The old population, lack of infrastructure, taxes, anti development attitudes will see to that. VT is an expensive backwater the best hope for the future is to have the state machine collapse and revert to being an inexpensive backwater. Go for it if you must you have been warned.
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