Which temperate climate seems closer to the subtropics to you?

[tom77falcons]

Also, the mid Atlantic region of the US East Coast is not ice bound and snow bound in winter. Our winter precip using years of climo data is far more likely to be rain than snow. No winter month here on on the southern NJ shore averages below freezing in winter.



Not as "alive" as NZ or England in winter, but not Arctic either.



There pics were all taken between Dec and Feb winters 2017-18, and 2018-19.


It is why folks from the Upper Midwest and Canada come here and say our winters are "nothing".

[easthome]

Originally Posted by tom77falcons

Generally agree except you must preface that with "in winter". All that matters is winter in this case. NYC definitely feels more subtropical May thru October than anywhere in the UK. DC and Philly even more so. Your area is really only warmer than mine for a quarter of the year (end of Nov to end of March). But that quarter of the year allows for the more alive look in winter in England than here for sure.


London sun elevation on winter solstice vs Philadelphia sun elevation on winter solstice. May not look that dramatic, but I felt it and the colder it is the more you can feel the warmth of the sun. So on a non summer day it matters. And plants feel it too.








Philly sun highest elevation on winter solstice:

What has London got to do with it? I thought we are talking about Wellington? And why only mention Winter?? The fact is the fauna in Wellington (and yes SW England) is closer to sub tropical compared to New York & that's because average winter lows in Wellington and southern England are above freezing - New York is simply too frigid in the Winter months for the sort of fauna that you find in Wellington to survive,

[tom77falcons]

Originally Posted by easthome

What has London got to do with it? I thought we are talking about Wellington? And why only mention Winter?? The fact is the fauna in Wellington (and yes SW England) is closer to sub tropical compared to New York & that's because average winter lows in Wellington and southern England are above freezing - New York is simply too frigid in the Winter months for the sort of fauna that you find in Wellington to survive,

I mentioned London cause I know which "country" you were including in that statement. You know you meant the UK as well as NZ.



What is your definition of "frigid" btw?

[easthome]

Originally Posted by tom77falcons

I mentioned London cause I know which "country" you were including in that statement. You know you meant the UK as well as NZ.



What is your definition of "frigid" btw?

Anything below freezing! I find the climate I live in too cold but New York gets even colder, the fact is that many sub-tropical plants will grow in NZ that will perish in NY.

[Subtropical-is-temperate3]

Originally Posted by easthome

Anything below freezing! I find the climate I live in too cold but New York gets even colder, the fact is that many sub-tropical plants will grow in NZ that will perish in NY.

Well that doesn’t make NYC not subtropical. NZ is not because of lack of summer heat, NYC is close to continental but not yet and it has hot summers, so a subtropical though barely. NZ mild winters which are way milder and without much extremes helps it grow many subtropical and even tropical plants.

NYC is in the warm temperate ecoregion(one of the main ecoregions subtropical climates have) it has Ilex opaca a subtropical native, Loblolly pine a native to the humid subtropical, are native, and albizzia julibrissin a subtropical plant, and it is invasive to NYC just like in US south, and being hardiness zone 7b you can grow live oaks a subtropical indicator(hardy to USDA 7a) and even Spanish moss is hardy to zone 7! You can grow needle palms(hardy to zone 5) sabal minor(hardy to zone 6) saw palmetto(hardy to 6b), mazari palm(hardy to zone 6), windmill palms(hardy to 7a), European fan palm trees (hardy to 7b), sabal palmetto(hardy to 7b), pindo palm(hardy to 7b), Sago palm(cycad, hardy to 7b), Southern Magnolias(magnolia grandiflora, hardy to zone 6), and various types of crape Myrtles(a tropical flowering tree) hardy to zone 6. Also some citrus and citrus hybrids: Trifoliate oranges(hardy to zone 5), Ichang Papeda(hardy to zone 6), Jiouyuezao mandarin an legitimate and edible citrus (hardy to 7b, successfully in Long Island, NY they grew and gave fruit), the hybrids citrandarin, citrange (hardy to 6b or 7a, a d semi-edible), citrangequat(hardy to zone 7 edible), citrumelo(semi-edible hardy to zone 7), and Kabosu hardy to 7b. A banana tree type can be grown Musa Basjoo hardy to zone 5, and there are 2 types hardy to 8a that could potentially do well the 7b there. There are also various bamboos being grown there, and some are even invasive now!

Oh and the hot summers, prone ti get affected by tropical cyclones, the subtropical fish in the seas, strong effects of the Bermuda high, just everything. Even if it’s winters are too cold for your liking it doesn’t make it non subtropical, NYC is subtropical, period. It is true that it is not the best example it is leaning towards continental more than what a typical subtropical would be, somewhere like Central Alabama is pure type. The occasional snowstorms, 2 feet of snow yearly average, often frost in winter, ice storms, show that it is close to continental climates, but overall it’s not. Half of the year tropical air flows directly in NYC, combined with the winters not reaching continental climates yet makes it be a warm temperate climate which is another term that is used for subtropical climates. NYC has a subtropical weather overall.

Your opinion is valid to you, you have your own preferences of temperatures. However, that doesn’t affect how climate classification works and all the other facts. NYC winter’s are cold for your preference but that doesn’t make it subtropical, maybr you prefer places in subtropical places on the warmer winter side, and very mild oceanic, or maybe other climates. I respect opinions, but climate classification is not based on that. My opinion is that Köppen climate classification one of the most accurate right now, I have enough proof to believe that, even with the Cfa humid subtropical which has been very controversial Köppen for me does better. Trewartha imo sucks, Isles of Scilly can’t simply be subtropical, it is oceanic. Yeah I know it cam grow many subtropical and tropical plants since it’s in hardiness zone 10(in US zone 10 you are usually in warm climates, infact USDA 10b in FL is already tropical climate), but oceanic climate have same winter definitions as subtropical, eith mild winters such vegetation with thrive. Look at it this way, if NYC has Isles of Scilly summers it would be oceanic and if Isles of Scilly had NYC summers it would be subtropical and infact a warm one.