"Do you have any objection to discussions about Christ?" (interviews, jobs)

[The Dissenter]

Originally Posted by ReturningWest

I live in rural deep south bible belt and I feel for you, I face it not only at work but at the grocery store, mall, hardware, on the street and even and my door step. I've posted no trespassing and private drive signs and still they come.

I'm not christian nor have I ever been and I'm sick of it and would love to move if the real estate market ever improves.

I think you handled it well and I wish you luck.

It is not just the bible belt in the deep South. I lived in Louisville, home of the Southern Baptist Seminary. Guess what nearly EVERY member of the upper management team at my job had in common? All of them went to that seminary at one time or were current students. It was nuts, even though I was still a practicing Christian at that time. They had endless Bible discussions. Even more weird, nearly all of them went to Ethopia to adopt kids as a part of some Christian program.

Ironically the cube across and next to me were occupied by atheists. I can only imagine how they felt.

[Alphareign]

Seriously: No.
Jokingly: Yes, I am offended by the title of Christ or the name Jesus.

[Kineticity]

I once worked in a small office where there was a guy who used to come in from the plant (this was a manufacturing company) and start religious discussions with two of my co-workers. They'd wind up sitting around the conference table in the middle of the room (which was about 20' by 20') and going on like it was a bible study. And this was during working hours. The guy who sat next to me was basically an atheist and while I'm not an atheist I'm also not a Christian -- although I was raised as one -- so we felt kind of weird.

I don't have a problem with people discussing their religion but that was a little bit over the top, and since it was happening about six feet away from my desk while I was trying to work it was also kind of distracting.

[Nighteyes]

Originally Posted by Del Boy

It says an employee is not allowed to discuss religion at work?

The Civil Rights Act refers to discrimination. Why do you assume her employees would discriminate against her?

[<SNIP!>]

Does that sound offensive to you?

First Point: It really doesn't matter how it sounds to me. What matters is, should an employee or prospective employee file a complaint about this specific question from this specific supervisor in this specific situation, how it might sound to state or federal investigators, or to a state or federal jury. Under American law, the supervisor is an "agent of the employer" which means that the company is entirely liable for her action or inaction. This particular question clearly suggests that participating in (or at least tolerating) Christian discussions may be a condition of employment at this company. Any such condition is entirely illegal.

Second Point: With all due respect, your words tell me that you don't know your hat from third base about the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as Amended. The Act itself, and the Equal Protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, create powerful restrictions on acts, or failures to act, by any employer (including its agents) that a reasonable person might construe as harassment or discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, sex or national origin. Several amendments (which is why it is called "...As Amended"), other regulations, and subsequent case law (actual court decisions) have since expanded this to include several others. Here's a fairly-current list of classes and groups that are protected under federal law:

Race, Color, Religion (or lack thereof), National Origin, Age (40 and over), Sex/Gender, Political Affiliation, Pregnancy, Citizenship, Family Status, Disability, Veteran Status, and Genetic Information.

=================================

In case you haven't already noticed, this is squarely in the center of the type of things I've been handling for the last few decades. [Yep, just look up the definition of 'old fart' and there's my picture. ] I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on the TV. However, I have worked side-by-side with some of America's finest employment-law attorneys, sometimes on very-real and very-important discrimination cases. Most of the time, though, we were working to ensure that our client companies, and their agents, didn't do anything that might spark a court case.

Now, I'm pretty sure that you already have a list of questions, objections and rebuttals. Hey, you're young and that's what young people do! This is neither the time nor the place for me to school you, so look around for some college-level courses on employment law, or similar in-service programs for Human Resources professionals.

Regards,

-- Nighteyes (aka The Old Fart)

[longnecker]

Originally Posted by manderly6

The appropriate response would have been "I'm glad to know religious discussions are OK. I always enjoy talking about Satan, my master."

Well that is hitting it head on. I would go a little easier and just say" I prefer not to discuss religion or politics at work.

[TheBookofLife]

Please don't get offended and please correct me if I get some wrong information.
This is a good place to exchange information and I am interested in this kind of topics. I learn stuff from you guys all the time.

42 U.S.C. §§ 2000e Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, this law protects an employee’s EEO. It applies to the government and private employers. The law focuses on the protection of employees’ religious belief.
It makes it unlawful if an employer:
(1) Fails or refuses to hire or to discharge any individual, or discriminates against any individual because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin;
(2) Limits, segregates, or classifies his employees or applicants for employment in any way which would deprive or tend to deprive any employment opportunities or adversely affect his status as an employee, because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex or national origin.
For an employee to be protected under Title VII, he must show that:
1. He/she holds a sincere religious belief and his/her belief conflicts with an employment requirement;
2. He/she has informed the employer about the conflict; and
3. He/she was discriminated against for failing to comply with the conflicting employment requirement.
Employers can even hold regular devotional or prayer meetings for employees so long as attendance is not required and the meeting is voluntary.
On the other hand, there is no law to ensure a religion-free workplace right. Attempting to create such a workplace may put an employer under liability for denying an employee's religious freedom.

[Rambler123]

I assume they would be open to discussions about other religions, too, right? Of course not... we all know how this nonsense works. And yet I bet they'd whine loud and long about "other faiths" being "too confrontational," of course, while not being able to see their hypocrisy.

Sorry that you have to put up with that. Legally, they can prattle away about whatever, but they can't punish you for having differing religious beliefs or just not being interested in being swept up in their evangelic faith. Of course, proving that as the reason for them giving you a hard time would be difficult, as is always the case with discrimination or other forms of office bullying.

Religion has it's place, but that place is not in my face and with an attitude. I recall visiting North Carolina a year or so back, and while the overall environment was decent, I doubted I'd be happy in a place where even the lawn care companies had huge billboards screaming "Jesus loves you!" As if that would somehow make me want them to care for my lawn... in a Christian way? Whatever...

Note that I AM technically Christian, but after seeing the direction the Church has taken and the real beliefs of most modern far-right "Christians," I have found that the more forward the person's religion, the more unreligious the person's actual beliefs are, sadly.

Good luck.

[Kineticity]

*must... refrain... from inappropriate comments about how "Jesus loves your lawn and will take good care of it, along with the rest of our crew" might make for a better billboard*

[Del Boy]

Originally Posted by Nighteyes

First Point: It really doesn't matter how it sounds to me. What matters is, should an employee or prospective employee file a complaint about this specific question from this specific supervisor in this specific situation, how it might sound to state or federal investigators, or to a state or federal jury. Under American law, the supervisor is an "agent of the employer" which means that the company is entirely liable for her action or inaction. This particular question clearly suggests that participating in (or at least tolerating) Christian discussions may be a condition of employment at this company. Any such condition is entirely illegal.

Second Point: With all due respect, your words tell me that you don't know your hat from third base about the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as Amended. The Act itself, and the Equal Protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, create powerful restrictions on acts, or failures to act, by any employer (including its agents) that a reasonable person might construe as harassment or discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, sex or national origin. Several amendments (which is why it is called "...As Amended"), other regulations, and subsequent case law (actual court decisions) have since expanded this to include several others. Here's a fairly-current list of classes and groups that are protected under federal law:

Race, Color, Religion (or lack thereof), National Origin, Age (40 and over), Sex/Gender, Political Affiliation, Pregnancy, Citizenship, Family Status, Disability, Veteran Status, and Genetic Information.

=================================

In case you haven't already noticed, this is squarely in the center of the type of things I've been handling for the last few decades. [Yep, just look up the definition of 'old fart' and there's my picture. ] I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on the TV. However, I have worked side-by-side with some of America's finest employment-law attorneys, sometimes on very-real and very-important discrimination cases. Most of the time, though, we were working to ensure that our client companies, and their agents, didn't do anything that might spark a court case.

Now, I'm pretty sure that you already have a list of questions, objections and rebuttals. Hey, you're young and that's what young people do! This is neither the time nor the place for me to school you, so look around for some college-level courses on employment law, or similar in-service programs for Human Resources professionals.

Regards,

-- Nighteyes (aka The Old Fart)

I'm assuming it's because of employees like this, that they decided to implement right to work policies. Not many people have the patience to deal with faux offense taken from something that wouldn't offend a reasonable person.

[mateo45]

BTW, it's not just the South and Fundamentalists. While visiting friends in Utah, I once interviewed for a position at a small town newspaper there, and nearly the entire interview was about my personal background, where I had lived, how long I was married, my kids, that kinda thing, with hardly any questions about my job experience or qualifications. But as my friends later explained, "oh that was nothing, you were just interviewed by a Mormon" (and needless to say, I didn't get the job)!