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No sane person in a Western democracy is advocating that we out "China" China in how they treat their citizens.
The fundamental point I was making is that we can't expect to compete when we have no work ethic and 60-70% of our workforce would rather spend the day rotting in bed.
We don't have to become a 996 economy (though, there are people doing that in some fields) to compete. But we do have to have a generally strong work ethic and desire to get stuff done, versus just putting in the time.
Anyway, people can spout socialistic ideals all day long. But we are going to become subservient to China unless we wake up.
The fundamental point I was making is that we can't expect to compete when we have no work ethic and 60-70% of our workforce would rather spend the day rotting in bed.
We don't have to become a 996 economy (though, there are people doing that in some fields) to compete. But we do have to have a generally strong work ethic and desire to get stuff done, versus just putting in the time.
Anyway, people can spout socialistic ideals all day long. But we are going to become subservient to China unless we wake up.
Maybe you need to lay off the overly dramatic sensationalist "news" articles trying to pin one generation against another. "Rotting in bed" is not a prevailing issue of our time lol.
It sometimes comes across that some people take these new, progressive approaches as an affront on the way they always did business. This isn't a criticism on you or your operation, my man. It's a discussion about a potentially new way of structuring the labor force and work week (for those that it works for).
Getting right down to brass tacks... 32 hour work week is an ignorant idea in critical work environments spawned from the bowels of socialism.
We need more paid leave, not fewer hours.
We need more benefits for workers who have children.
We need people paid by merit.
We need more people willing to do the hard work behind the scenes that most progressives take for granted.
We need more education that mirrors the needs of business.
We need more community minded endeavors from business.
We need more families to stay together and business should have a role in that.
So now we're clear. Your role here was merely to politicize this issue on...let me check, ah, yeah, that's right, not the P&OC forum. Good luck with that, DAVE!
Why not address Dave's excellent points and suggestions?
He's just saying what a lot of people are saying: we need to stop trying to use the workplace as a laboratory for social justice, and let it be what it's supposed to be: a place for people to work hard and get the job done.
Bernie Sanders does not represent the broad majority of Americans, but his ideas are definitely appealing to some minority of people, who have been raised to believe they deserve nice things without having to work for them.
I think we need a recalibration of our educational system to make people realize that hard work is the key to success (that, or marrying a rich person).
Maybe. However, that only becomes a problem when work isn't getting done. Nobody cares when things are moving forward as they are expected. At least that's been my experience. But I generally don't work for bean counters and micro managers either.
One thing I also learned long ago is that you don't go around volunteering yourself for a ton of other "made up" work either. You get your job done as prescribed, you shut up, you keep your head down, and everything is rosy.
Funny story. I actually quit my last job because there wasn't enough work and when I attempted to seek it out from other managers and try to create value, I got my hand slapped and was told to fall in line. Welcome to modern day Corporate America!
To add, sometimes changes happen in the job that changes the workload.
When I first started my job twelve years ago, there were three major components (each with a number of subtasks attached) that we were to do. It was busier, but we all liked it--the days went by fairly quickly, and we felt more involved in the process.
Then somebody in upper management got the bright idea to silo out the three major components. So now instead of one team doing Components A, B, and C, you have one team doing *only* Component A, one team *only* doing Component B, and one team *only* doing Component C.
Once we silo'd out....that's when the days got long, and nobody feels particularly 'part of the process' anymore. I went from almost always having something to do to....not.
I've kinda reached my limit, to be honest. I've been putting out my resume to find something else.
I'm not interested in having a discussion with you about someone (Bernie) or something (progressivism) that you inherently think is evil, based on your own biases. There is a reason I don't participate on the P&OC bleepshow in the first place. I ask you to kindly leave me out that, Dave.
This discussion is about a 4-day work week, which may have practical application for some people and some businesses.
So ... only information you deem relative, to the topic. There 's a progressive mind at work... creating misinformation.
What do you do for a living? would you personally benefit from a 32 hr 4 day week?
I'm not interested in having a discussion with you about someone (Bernie) or something (progressivism) that you inherently think is evil, based on your own biases. There is a reason I don't participate on the P&OC bleepshow in the first place. I ask you to kindly leave me out that, Dave.
This discussion is about a 4-day work week, which may have practical application for some people and some businesses.
The bolded says it all.
I went through the period when there was a re-alignment of classifications between exempt and non-exempt and that sucked up so much oxygen out of the room, thousands of hours of attorneys and accountants, and forests of paperwork, and HR agita, and it's questionable whether the employees are better off or not (at least in my industry).
The gymnastics surrounding a transition to a nominal 32 hour week would dwarf that effort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalUID
In these scenarios, you wouldn't only get 32 hours of work from an employee. In most theoretical situations, the 32-hour per week employee would be supplemented with a part time worker for the hours they aren't working. So, maybe you have a scenario with two full-time workers with staggered schedules.
EE 1 (M-Th) - 32 hours per week
EE 2 (Tu-F) - 32 hours per week
EE 3 (M&F) - 16 hours per week
This is an example of when mathematics doesn't tell a full story.
Now you have 3 people to manage, and at some point have 'leakage' in the transition amongst all three, as the responsibilities get sliced into smaller pies.
And do you think the crowd supporting a 32 hour week would be OK exempting the 16 hour guy from at least some benefits?
Putting on my manager hat that sounds almost like a lack of supervision or deficit of knowledge on the part of management.
My bosses, all the way up the chain, knew about how long something should take. Even when I was negotiating contracts they all had a grasp of the process and what should be happening.
Unfortunately, it hasn't been that way in a long time. Been about 25 years since I had a boss that actually understood what I did. Had a couple in that time that understood enough to trust me to do it, but for too many it became about putting the right coversheet on the TPS reports. They couldn't even understand the TPS reports they wanted, only that we used the right fonts and colors.
Unfortunately, it hasn't been that way in a long time. Been about 25 years since I had a boss that actually understood what I did. Had a couple in that time that understood enough to trust me to do it, but for too many it became about putting the right coversheet on the TPS reports. They couldn't even understand the TPS reports they wanted, only that we used the right fonts and colors.
Of course, if you're providing a critical service, lets say providing municipal potable water... then everyone must be engaged and competent. Because water is so critical to our daily lives, incompetent people show up right away. However, there's always the peter principle and people do make mistakes... so there's no absolutes.
How would law enforcement work 32 hours when they're lacking bodies already? What about teachers? Paramedics, firemen, how about teamsters/truck drivers?
I started cleaning up this thread, deleting rude and off-topic posts, but have decided that it's just not worth salvaging at this point. The bickering, personal attacks and political commentary are inappropriate.
If you wish to discuss politics, please do so in the P&OC forum.
.
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