MARTA News (Atlanta: construction, schools, income)

[ATLTJL]

But I do think Dekalb contributes more sales taxes than non-Atlanta Fulton.

I'd like to see the data on this.

I mean, you might be right, I don't know. I just think it's pretty hard to imagine there is more revenue made in sales in Dekalb county than non-Atlanta Fulton when Fulton has Northpoint, Avalon, and tons of other retail all generating sales taxes. But I don't know where tax revenue from Perimeter mall goes, since it's on the border between the two counties.

And I don't even know how important that type of retail is. I mean, maybe taxes from new car sales dwarfs what brick and mortar retail generates? I'm not sure, but I can't really fathom a scenario where Dekalb county somehow generates more than Fulton.

[autolycus25]

Originally Posted by MattCW

The demographics of each are a bit different though. Dekalb is SFH suburban out to its borders. Fulton however gets pretty darn rural toward its southern end, and really low density SFH on its northern end. If you look at distance from Atlanta, then Fulton likely gets comparable service per distance that Dekalb does.

There's really nothing rural about Roswell or Alpharetta (or even Johns Creek) which have a combined total of 0 miles of rail transit and 5 bus routes. Roswell, with it's population of 95k at 2,311/sq mi, has 2 bus routes, which run along just 3 local roads (SR9, Holcomb Bridge only between SR9 and 400, and Mansell only between SR9 and 400).

Tucker, meanwhile, has 6 bus routes (I think), and population of just 35k at 1,754/sq mi. Doraville's population density is pretty much the same as Roswell's at 2,326/sq mi.

None of this is me saying there's an inequity in Doraville having a train station and Roswell not, or in Tucker having 3x the bus routes or Roswell. It's me simply saying that the Dekalb argument that they're neglected in favor of Fulton County or will be neglected in favor of Gwinnett is not a very strong one. Both areas need more transit services, and both areas will have to pay more to get them.


*All numbers from wikipedia, which would be wrong.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

From what I can see, Stonecrest Mall is 11 mils past the Indian Creek station.

Dekalb county really thinks it deserves 11 additional miles of heavy rail? At $250 million per mile, that's $2.75 billion. Pretty big ask for a county that generates a fraction the revenue of Fulton county, especially when the rail doesn't even extend past North Springs (even though I know that's because of some idiot local leadership that doesn't want it.) That's more or less the same distance from Doraville to Gwinnett Place, and I bet Gwinnett immediately starts contributing more to MARTA if it is voted in than Dekalb does. And that rail extension is 30 years away. If it happens at all.

The route to Stonecrest just doesn't seem densely populated or commercially important enough to justify extending heavy rail that way. Dekalb county really should go back to the drawing board and make some more reasonable asks. Or else start contributing a lot more to the bottom line.

If DeKalb Co passed a 0.5% sales tax increase to fund transit expansion, that 1 project would suck up all the funds. The issue with the outcry are decisions are being made using emotion, instead of data.
DeKalb has currently began a transit master plan, so maybe they will have some data to be cry afoul next time.

[autolycus25]

Originally Posted by cqholt

If DeKalb Co passed a 0.5% sales tax increase to fund transit expansion, that 1 project would suck up all the funds. The issue with the outcry are decisions are being made using emotion, instead of data.
DeKalb has currently began a transit master plan, so maybe they will have some data to be cry afoul next time.

And something approaching $1B will be required from Dekalb to finish the Clifton Corridor.

[primaltech]

DeKalb's problem is that it has too much MARTA bus service, for its sales tax penny. Quality issue, not quantity issue. They're stretched too thin. There's a whole ton of routes, and besides a few good ones, most of them make no sense whatsoever, for most people. They run ridiculous loopy routes through the middle of SFH subdivisions to benefit a few people, with tons of stops everywhere, and the frequency is super low. And there's so many detours and indirect routes. Everything is just, slow.

Run half the number of routes, with half of the stops, but double the bus frequency, and straighten the routes out on more efficient, more direct corridors. With more shelters and benches and nicer features at the far fewer stops.

Also, have a few direct express loop shuttles, that only stop at the 2 connected points. Like one that goes from Stonecrest Mall to Indian Creek station, direct via all freeway, and bus-only shoulder lanes and whatnot.

And put everything on the rail map. With thinner lines, and smaller fonts and etc.

They need a re-think, before they need anything else. Then after that point, they can decide to increase funding if they want more service.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

I'd like to see the data on this.

I mean, you might be right, I don't know. I just think it's pretty hard to imagine there is more revenue made in sales in Dekalb county than non-Atlanta Fulton when Fulton has Northpoint, Avalon, and tons of other retail all generating sales taxes. But I don't know where tax revenue from Perimeter mall goes, since it's on the border between the two counties.

And I don't even know how important that type of retail is. I mean, maybe taxes from new car sales dwarfs what brick and mortar retail generates? I'm not sure, but I can't really fathom a scenario where Dekalb county somehow generates more than Fulton.

Perimeter Mall is in Dekalb County.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by autolycus25

And something approaching $1B will be required from Dekalb to finish the Clifton Corridor.

Where are you getting $1 billion from? Phase 1 is 4 miles with local cost for of $500 million while phase 2 is mostly at grade.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

Where are you getting $1 billion from? Phase 1 is 4 miles with local cost for of $500 million while phase 2 is mostly at grade.

I use to keep up with MARTA's various plans better, but the current Light Rail LPA Phase 1 is listed as $900m-$1.3b on MARTA's fact sheet.


https://www.itsmarta.com/uploadedFil...ew%20Logor.pdf

[autolycus25]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

Where are you getting $1 billion from? Phase 1 is 4 miles with local cost for of $500 million while phase 2 is mostly at grade.

The latest estimate for full build is $1.8-2.1B, with Phase 1 costing $900MM-1.3B. I wasn’t separating out the federal match, which makes a big difference. I also expect it to cost more than $2.3B because things always cost more than they should.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

DeKalb's problem is that it has too much MARTA bus service, for its sales tax penny. Quality issue, not quantity issue. They're stretched too thin. There's a whole ton of routes, and besides a few good ones, most of them make no sense whatsoever, for most people. They run ridiculous loopy routes through the middle of SFH subdivisions to benefit a few people, with tons of stops everywhere, and the frequency is super low. And there's so many detours and indirect routes. Everything is just, slow.

Run half the number of routes, with half of the stops, but double the bus frequency, and straighten the routes out on more efficient, more direct corridors. With more shelters and benches and nicer features at the far fewer stops.

Also, have a few direct express loop shuttles, that only stop at the 2 connected points. Like one that goes from Stonecrest Mall to Indian Creek station, direct via all freeway, and bus-only shoulder lanes and whatnot.

And put everything on the rail map. With thinner lines, and smaller fonts and etc.

They need a re-think, before they need anything else. Then after that point, they can decide to increase funding if they want more service.

A complete, overnight bus network overhaul (similar to Houston Metro) would benefit MARTA's buses tremendously.