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.......Why not let these low end EV's that sell for $5k or $10k into the country? People in China and India are buying them. How unsafe can they really be? We let people ride motorcycles on the freeway. That is way more dangerous than these EV's. Yet we are worried about bumpers on these cars.
At least they can meet the emission standards which is what keeps most of the cheap foreign cars out of the USA.
It would be more than a bit unfair to the other manufacturers to make them all meet safety standards and yet allow cheap cars in from India that don't meet any safety standards at all.
Possibly no dealerships would want to carry them because the second anyone got hurt, there would be a huge lawsuit filed. Passengers in China and India who are hurt while in their cars can just die because of it and nobody cares and they sure can't file a lawsuit over it. That's one of the things that help to keep the cost down.
Seems to me if we are going to make people buy EV's in the coming decade and its urgent because of climate change, etc. Why not let these low end EV's that sell for $5k or $10k into the country? People in China and India are buying them. How unsafe can they really be? We let people ride motorcycles on the freeway. That is way more dangerous than these EV's. Yet we are worried about bumpers on these cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke
At least they can meet the emission standards which is what keeps most of the cheap foreign cars out of the USA.
It would be more than a bit unfair to the other manufacturers to make them all meet safety standards and yet allow cheap cars in from India that don't meet any safety standards at all.
Possibly no dealerships would want to carry them because the second anyone got hurt, there would be a huge lawsuit filed. Passengers in China and India who are hurt while in their cars can just die because of it and nobody cares and they sure can't file a lawsuit over it. That's one of the things that help to keep the cost down.
I think the problem is more getting people to buy them, because the small car or even just generally car sales in the US has cratered over the last decade. These small entry level vehicles generally have very small margins and so they need to sell in volume to make sense, but small vehicles don't generally sell in volume in the US which is why you had things like the Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris get axed once there was a refresh of their respective platforms. They continued on in the rest of the world, but the cost of homologation to US standards as well as needing to guarantee support in terms of parts and services for the next generation probably didn't make sense given the sales numbers and very low margins. It's not that these cheaper vehicles can't be modified to meet US crash standards, after all, they make their way to Europe which has different but in many respects equally rigorous crash standards. That homologation to Euro standards does generally up the cost significantly in addition to the other costs associated with selling in another market, but there's at least a distinct possibility that there's a large enough market to make it worthwhile.
I do think vehicles like these would be interesting as not street legal neighborhood vehicles though. They're often worlds better in terms of utility, quality, and value compared to actual golf carts sold in the US which often have pretty inexplicably high prices given what you can get with supercompact Chinese, or in this case, Indian, electric vehicles.
At least they can meet the emission standards which is what keeps most of the cheap foreign cars out of the USA.
It would be more than a bit unfair to the other manufacturers to make them all meet safety standards and yet allow cheap cars in from India that don't meet any safety standards at all.
Possibly no dealerships would want to carry them because the second anyone got hurt, there would be a huge lawsuit filed. Passengers in China and India who are hurt while in their cars can just die because of it and nobody cares and they sure can't file a lawsuit over it. That's one of the things that help to keep the cost down.
That gets into a whole different subject of lawsuits making everything more expensive and retail car dealers controlling the new car market.
When I lived in Arizona I went to a dentist in Nogales, Mexico which was 1/3rd of the cost. He went to school here and practiced in AZ for a long time. He said the cost difference is simply not having to have high malpractice insurance policies. Like I said another subject.
The fact that you can drive a motorcycle on the highways at high speed makes the notion that every car has to be ultra safe hypocritical.
I think the problem is more getting people to buy them, because the small car or even just generally car sales in the US has cratered over the last decade. These small entry level vehicles generally have very small margins and so they need to sell in volume to make sense, but small vehicles don't generally sell in volume in the US which is why you had things like the Honda Fit and Toyota Yaris get axed once there was a refresh of their respective platforms. They continued on in the rest of the world, but the cost of homologation to US standards as well as needing to guarantee support in terms of parts and services for the next generation probably didn't make sense given the sales numbers and very low margins. It's not that these cheaper vehicles can't be modified to meet US crash standards, after all, they make their way to Europe which has different but in many respects equally rigorous crash standards. That homologation to Euro standards does generally up the cost significantly in addition to the other costs associated with selling in another market, but there's at least a distinct possibility that there's a large enough market to make it worthwhile.
I do think vehicles like these would be interesting as not street legal neighborhood vehicles though. They're often worlds better in terms of utility, quality, and value compared to actual golf carts sold in the US which often have pretty inexplicably high prices given what you can get with supercompact Chinese, or in this case, Indian, electric vehicles.
We are entering an era of high inflation, slow economic growth and high gas prices. Back in the 70's and 80's cars went from big V8's with poor gas mileage to small 4 cylinder ones. Then by the mid 80's on inflation went away, cars got bigger and interest rates lower. So the cost of purchasing an expensive poor gas mileage vehicle became less of a problem.
So I would look at history from past decades not just recent history to see what people really want going forward.
At the very least let people import them. I buy and sell used auction vehicles. People buy these vehicles all over the world and have them shipped to them. Can't be that expensive to do that.
Of course this is fantasy-land stuff. Car dealers won't give up their stranglehold on the market and government regulators won't ease car regulations.
Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 10-03-2022 at 07:02 AM..
There's been Alibaba EVs under $10k for quite a while. I doubt this one will be street legal in the USA either. Whenever a company says they're bringing one over, it ends up being subcompact price and pretty much non-competitive.
It's unfortunate that we can't have a $10k grocery getter. I'd even take one that can't go on the highway.
Quite a list. You wonder what will happen when a good amount of states say EV's only. Will car companies still make gas vehicles for just half the country?
Quite a list. You wonder what will happen when a good amount of states say EV's only. Will car companies still make gas vehicles for just half the country?
Well technically it is about 1/3 of the country that follows CARB's ZEV mandate, but so far only CA and NY have approved an outright ban. Battery Electric Vehicle share of new car sales in California are 15.1% for the first half of 2022. Personally, I think that CA will make 35% of new car sales by 2026 unless there are major blackouts in the summer heat waves before then that cause widespread turmoil.
For the first half of 2022 Tesla has now surpassed GM, Ford, Honda+Acura, and Stellantis to become the #2 automaker for vehicle registrations in California. But Tesla is still a distant #2 behind Toyota + Lexus. Unless Tesla finally starts producing this mystical Tesla Model #2, they simply can't overtake Toyota. Besides for the next ~5 years Tesla can probably sell all the model S3XY that they can produce in Fremont and Austin. So not only will they have to design a model #2, but they will have to open another factory to build them.
152,838 Toyota 17.9%
24,630 Lexus 2.9%
90,895 Tesla 10.7%
Toyota has pledged to have a hybrid offering for the Tacoma and the 4Runner before 2025 (probably 2024 model year). They are going to cease selling the Supra and probably cease selling the C-HR in the United States. This will be the culmination of over two decades and Toyota will have a hybrid version of every model (with the Prius, Venza, Sienna, Crown and Sequoia only offered as hybrids).
I know you should never say "never", but it is extremely unlikely that Toyota will be selling 35% of its vehicles as ZEV in California by 2026. As of right now, they only have Mirai fuel cell vehicle sale. Toyota is not going to accept massive fines, and California probably can't afford to ban Toyota from selling in CA. The bZ4X will probably never go above a few percentage points of Toyota sales. Bottom line is too "meh".
I see a negotiated compromise or a major lawsuit. Don't forget GM sued and beat CARB rules for EV requirements in 2001. Perhaps Toyota will remove all pure ICE vehicles from their dealerships in California and only sell hybrids.
The other 11 major companies I believe will meet the 35% in California by 2026 on their own (except possibly Honda). These companies must comply with the new requirements.
Stellantis,
Ford,
General Motors,
Toyota,
Honda,
Nissan,
Hyundai,
Kia,
BMW,
Mercedes,
Volkswagen,
Ford, General Motors, and Stellantis will have the advantage of the $7500 federal tax credit. And Nissan can build EVs in Smyrna, TN so they should ge the federal tax credit as well for some of their EVs. The European are well down the EV road anyway (because of European EV requirements). Korean companies clearly see EVs as there future.
NY state is a different story. The state has half the population of NY, but only 10% of the BEV fleet at the end of 2021. But they have signed up to match California's 35% by 2026.
NY state has half their population in just 6 out of 62 counties: the 4 biggest counties (also called boroughs) of New York City (excluding Staten Island) and the two counties of Long Island. I honestly think that NY gasoline ban will collapse on sheer logistic difficulty.
It is true that CA has ~half their population in just 4 out of 58 counties. Los Angeles, San Diego, Orange, and Riverside Counties, but these counties are much bigger are not nearly as dense as the NY counties. There is much more room for parking and for charging stations, and many more people have an easy way to home charge.
Last edited by PacoMartin; 10-07-2022 at 08:44 AM..
Five smaller manufacturers (Jaguar Land Rover, Mitsubishi, Mazda, Subaru and Volvo) are also required to comply with the ZEV requirements, but may meet their obligation with plug-in hybrids.
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