Will Columbus become largest Ohio metro? (Cleveland, Cincinnati: living, suburbs, campus)

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by midwest1

Im not making anything up Dude....Im giving you a 50 year-old opinion.

I was 2 when I left Middletown...early 70s...but have visited ever since so I think I can say I know the Cin-Day corridor, probably better than most anyone on this forum. And I really have no horse in the whole Triple C competition.

I have watched the inexorable merging of the 2 metros. The wealth of Cincy surged north...Dayton south...sucked the lifeblood out of Middletown in the past but is now pumping actually new life into Middletown. Why? Because it is now smack in the middle of a very obvious metroplex.

Sooo...unless Columbus grows to 3.2 million (and Cin-Day for some reason stops growing...which I dont really see happening...Dayton even is starting to grow) it wont become Ohios largest metro.

Mark my word...

Again, development being connected between Dayton and Cincinnati plays ZERO role in how metros are designated. The Northeast Corridor between Boston and Philly is almost continuously developed, yet they are all separate metros. Cleveland and Akron may very well be connected, but aren't in the same metro. There are several such examples like this. The problem for Cin-Day is that each respective metro still has too much pull in and of itself, but not enough from each other. Until that changes, they will continue to be separate metros whether anyone likes it or not.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by BLS2753

What the poster is likely referring to, is before Amtrak came into existence in 1971, the nation's intercity long distance passenger trains were operated by private railroads. The emergence of air travel and the Interstate Highway System, made this business a losing proposition. The federal government stepped in and created Amtrak, relieving the private railroads of passenger service, and these companies became strictly freight railroads. The most successful ones exist today, as freight only operations. Amtrak as put together by the government, was and is, a skeleton of the former passenger train network the private railroads operated pre-1971. There are several fairly large cities that were bypassed with the creation of Amtrak. Columbus is one of them.

Yep, which wasn't something Columbus dictated. Heavy passenger rail had been dying for decades before the 1970s, and then the federal government ended the last Columbus line in 1977. The city has literally been discussing bringing rail back in some form since 1980, but partially through negligence, partially through incompetence, partially through bad luck, one bad public vote, etc., it hasn't happened. For example, the last plan to build rail was in 2007, when Mayor Coleman wanted to start a streetcar system with a first line along High Street. Of course the economy began crashing that year, making funding pretty much impossible for the next 5 years. Now there is a new administration that seems focused on alternative stuff that isn't practical. Researching all the proposals and all the problems over the years, it's frustrating to say the least.

[midwest1]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Again, development being connected between Dayton and Cincinnati plays ZERO role in how metros are designated. The Northeast Corridor between Boston and Philly is almost continuously developed, yet they are all separate metros. Cleveland and Akron may very well be connected, but aren't in the same metro. There are several such examples like this. The problem for Cin-Day is that each respective metro still has too much pull in and of itself, but not enough from each other. Until that changes, they will continue to be separate metros whether anyone likes it or not.

DC Baltimore is a horrible comparison to CinDay. There is no I-75 there....I-75, which remember, parallels largely the Great Miami River..only served to cement the pre-existing economic connections in Southwest Ohio.

Much of the wealth of DC sprawls away from Baltimore...the wealth of Dayton and Cincy have sprawled rapidly towards one another, which has led to the explosion of growth in the corridor.

And again you ignore the existence between Dayton and Cincinnati of two preexisting legacy river cities of Hamilton and Middletown..both of which are in the midst of urban regeneration. They, along with booming West Chester, Liberty Township, Lebanon etc are creating a unique multifaceted growing metroplex that is decidedly larger than Columbus...with or without bureaucratic stamps.

[I_am_Father_McKenzie]

Originally Posted by midwest1

DC Baltimore is a horrible comparison to CinDay. There is no I-75 there....I-75, which remember, parallels largely the Great Miami River..only served to cement the pre-existing economic connections in Southwest Ohio.

Much of the wealth of DC sprawls away from Baltimore...the wealth of Dayton and Cincy have sprawled rapidly towards one another, which has led to the explosion of growth in the corridor.

And again you ignore the existence between Dayton and Cincinnati of two preexisting legacy river cities of Hamilton and Middletown..both of which are in the midst of urban regeneration. They, along with booming West Chester, Liberty Township, Lebanon etc are creating a unique multifaceted growing metroplex that is decidedly larger than Columbus...with or without bureaucratic stamps.

LOL there's no I-75 there. You're right. There's only a US-29, I-95, MD 295, and I-97 (all of which are limited access highways) directly connecting the two metros. Maryland's flagship state university is NE (i.e. towards Baltimore) of DC. Annapolis right in between them to the east forms a nice metro triangle. You're right; they're a bad comparison, because Baltimore-DC are much more likely to become a single MSA.

And again you ignore that Cincinnati and Dayton aren't even the same CSA yet.

And the title of the thread uses "metro". That is an official Census designation.

[midwest1]

My point about I-75 was lost on you.

It is basically the spine of the CinDay Metroplex...it funnels the energy of the region, focuses it along one booming linear zone.

There is nothing parallel to that in DC-Baltimore...the energy of DC does not only flow towards Baltimore the way the energy between Cincinnati and Dayton flows along I-75.

[midwest1]

Curious how those of you in denial about the rapidly emerging CinDay Metroplex....feel about the case of Springboro....part of which lies in the Dayton MSA and part in the Cincy MSA. How can one town be a suburb of two metros? That highlights how interconnected the region is and is, in fact, one connected urban area.

[DevolsDance]

Originally Posted by midwest1

Curious how those of you in denial about the rapidly emerging CinDay Metroplex....feel about the case of Springboro....part of which lies in the Dayton MSA and part in the Cincy MSA. How can one town be a suburb of two metros? That highlights how interconnected the region is and is, in fact, one connected urban area.

I believe the denial of the "Cin-Day" metroplex is mostly due to because it doesn't technically on paper exist in any way.

I think we all understand how close the cities have grown and how the towns long I75 have become tied to each metro but it still doesn't make the "metroplex" definition real. I visit Cincinnati and Dayton quiet a bit for work and while I see your argument regarding I75, the reality is that it isn't a thing because 25% of the residents aren't crossing metros for work. I also would argue that each metro is very different in terms of culture and economy. Dayton and Cincinnati just don't have that relationship, dependency, or even boost that merged metros have. I guess my struggle with a Cin-Day metro is that the only real relationship is the touching of some far exurban areas, its not a complete weaving of the metros together, its just one touch point really that hasn't caused any major identity or relationship change between the two cities.

It's hard to explain but something other than technical reasons is just still missing for these to feel like a metroplex. It's just not there yet and with the slowing of massive boom suburban growth I'm not sure it will be anytime soon.

[I_am_Father_McKenzie]

Originally Posted by midwest1

My point about I-75 was lost on you.

It is basically the spine of the CinDay Metroplex...it funnels the energy of the region, focuses it along one booming linear zone.

There is nothing parallel to that in DC-Baltimore...the energy of DC does not only flow towards Baltimore the way the energy between Cincinnati and Dayton flows along I-75.

If the I-75 corridor were such a spine there'd need to be more than one thoroughfare connecting it all. DC is growing very large, and even if most is in other directions its growth towards Baltimore is still probably comparable to that of Cincinnati towards Dayton. And the fact is DC-Baltimore is already a CSA and would more likely become a single MSA than Cincinnati and Dayton.

[woxyroxme]

Originally Posted by DevolsDance

I believe the denial of the "Cin-Day" metroplex is mostly due to because it doesn't technically on paper exist in any way.

All I ever hear is Dayton-Springfield and I never met anyone in Springboro during the years I worked there that thought they were in the Cincinnati area.

[motorman]

Originally Posted by I_am_Father_McKenzie

If the I-75 corridor were such a spine there'd need to be more than one thoroughfare connecting it all. DC is growing very large, and even if most is in other directions its growth towards Baltimore is still probably comparable to that of Cincinnati towards Dayton. And the fact is DC-Baltimore is already a CSA and would more likely become a single MSA than Cincinnati and Dayton.

Such a DC-Baltimore analogy simply doesn't work when applied to the Cin-Day corridor. The pounding, pedal-to-the-metal stretch of I-75, extending from Walton, KY up to Tipp City, OH, is one of the nation's major commercial arteries that supplies tremendous lifeblood to the entire region surrounding it.