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Yes. Surrounded by fire ants. At 95 degrees and 95% humidity all summer long. With a single scraggly live oak in a lawn of crab grass. Hoping the termites don't invade.
(There is no perfect place.)
Boy, you musta lived in a dump that you didn't tend to! Surely you realize that this doesn't describe most of Texas which has extremely variable landscapes from beaches to mountains and everything in between. If you had a scraggly tree, crab grass, and termites, that's on you, brother. There are ways to turn that into an oasis with half a brain and not much $$. The fire ants, if you have them (I don't) are easy to control.
I lived in the Boulder/Denver area for years and enjoyed it 20 years ago, but visiting it recently... I wouldn't be enticed to move back. You can say the same for the Austin area where I live now (central tx). It was way better back in the day, but still a nice place to live. Everything changes and NO place is perfect.
I hate to be the one to tell you but I have been to many nice areas in a lot of those states listed, and since Covid has allowed so many professionals to work from home permanently those same areas seem to be growing with some as high as 20% yearly.
While many people have been pushed into cities and suburbs for generations now this work from home push is allowing people to choose where they live regardless of job location and many are leaving wealthy urban areas for a slower relaxed culture.
I hate to be the one to tell you but I have been to many nice areas in a lot of those states listed, and since Covid has allowed so many professionals to work from home permanently those same areas seem to be growing with some as high as 20% yearly.
While many people have been pushed into cities and suburbs for generations now this work from home push is allowing people to choose where they live regardless of job location and many are leaving wealthy urban areas for a slower relaxed culture.
The high growth rates are pretty much a national phenomenon that you can also find in the cities the professionals are supposedly leaving.
I think this 'work from home' push is pretty much already maxed out. Most companies are returning to a hybrid work model where you still come into the office one or two days a week. Only a fraction are keeping work remote.
Even those with work from home jobs might enjoy city amenities and have to consider things like schools. They also need to think about what they have to do if they lose their current job and might need to rely on the local job market.
More people can and do take advantage of the current situation to move to a smaller metro, but the number is not as high as you think and it will certainly not reconfigure where people live in a significant way.
The high growth rates are pretty much a national phenomenon that you can also find in the cities the professionals are supposedly leaving.
I think this 'work from home' push is pretty much already maxed out. Most companies are returning to a hybrid work model where you still come into the office one or two days a week. Only a fraction are keeping work remote.
Even those with work from home jobs might enjoy city amenities and have to consider things like schools. They also need to think about what they have to do if they lose their current job and might need to rely on the local job market.
More people can and do take advantage of the current situation to move to a smaller metro, but the number is not as high as you think and it will certainly not reconfigure where people live in a significant way.
Prices are rising, but 25% on 250K isn't nearly as sharp as 25% on 600K for location independent workers. Disagree about the trend petering out. The housing market is frozen now with sellers hesitant to sell and buyers not having options. There's something like 1 house available for every 65 potential buyers in the 60K-100K household income range. So lots of people, like myself, are on the sidelines waiting for inventory to show up, once that happens, they may not all sort back to the same spot.
Also, a very sizable percentage of boomers retired the last 2 years, that's a whole lot of people not tied to a location for work anymore.
Likewise many downtown retail businesses had covid lifelines. The new normals are setting in and if the foot traffic downtown isn't what it was, more and more shops are gonna fold up in 2022-2024, and that will be somewhat self reinforcing as downtown deadens out, its going to be less enjoyable.
There's been like a great American outdoors awakening with Covid, millions of people realized that there's fun things to do outside that they didn't do before. That sits well for COs desirability as a whole, but I think people won't pay the egregious front range premium (and inferior outdoor experience knock) this next decade, they'll go to the Canon City and Salida's of the state.
Prices are rising, but 25% on 250K isn't nearly as sharp as 25% on 600K for location independent workers. Disagree about the trend petering out. The housing market is frozen now with sellers hesitant to sell and buyers not having options. There's something like 1 house available for every 65 potential buyers in the 60K-100K household income range. So lots of people, like myself, are on the sidelines waiting for inventory to show up, once that happens, they may not all sort back to the same spot.
Also, a very sizable percentage of boomers retired the last 2 years, that's a whole lot of people not tied to a location for work anymore.
Likewise many downtown retail businesses had covid lifelines. The new normals are setting in and if the foot traffic downtown isn't what it was, more and more shops are gonna fold up in 2022-2024, and that will be somewhat self reinforcing as downtown deadens out, its going to be less enjoyable.
There's been like a great American outdoors awakening with Covid, millions of people realized that there's fun things to do outside that they didn't do before. That sits well for COs desirability as a whole, but I think people won't pay the egregious front range premium (and inferior outdoor experience knock) this next decade, they'll go to the Canon City and Salida's of the state.
Yes downtown retail will not likely recover to pre pandemic levels. Many restaurants are reopening in suburbs. However the total number of fully remote jobs is unlikely to exceed 2020 levels. A lot of jobs couldn't be done remotely, and for those that can people don't necessarily want to be fully remote. The overall number of completely remote jobs in the future will be between 2019 and 2020.
There are people who prefer small town life and those who prefer a suburban lifestyle or urban lifestyle. Some people do move to Denver for the entertainment, culture and other urban amenities first and the outdoors second. If you prioritize outdoor experience over these things then it makes sense to look into Idaho, SLC or Salida, but there are people like me who would never live in places so lacking in vibrancy. People with school age kids are also unlikely to move to a picturesque locale with high schools graduating class of 20.
You say there's an outrageous premium on living on the Front Range, but cities comparable to Denver like Seattle and Austin also have crowded trails, bad traffic and outrageous housing.
Weather: This is a pro and con. Pro from the lack of humidity coming from the south and abundant sunshine from the midwest. The cool nights were pleasant. However, the lack of humidity became a problem after a while and it was missed. THe sun is intense and summer days were often spent in hte shade. The lack of rain is a real issue.
OP, I was curious to hear more about this. I've always felt like I could never make it in Arizona for that reason. I seem to constantly be thirsty, needing a bottle of water with me most of the time, and when I was out there, it was non-stop. My nose gets crusty and bloody when the humidity's low and my skin is already old and dry. On the plus side, my curly/frizzy hair would probably look great, but otherwise I don't think a low-humidity climate would be my jam. Just wondering what your issues were.
There's been like a great American outdoors awakening with Covid, millions of people realized that there's fun things to do outside that they didn't do before. That sits well for COs desirability as a whole, but I think people won't pay the egregious front range premium (and inferior outdoor experience knock) this next decade, they'll go to the Canon City and Salida's of the state.
Speaking of egregious premium, the median listing price/sq ft in Salida is currently more than double that of the Springs. Depending on which realtor site you believe, that is up as much as 50+% from one year ago.
I thought of this thread yesterday while in an airport lounge far from Denver. I overheard people chatting about where they were from and Denver comes up. And then the fun begins. People start on the I can't live there anymore rants. And others in the lounge chiming in. Those who started it said they left to move to NW Arkansas. They raved about how they now have hiking trails that are nearly empty. They said when they first moved to Denver in 2012 they had some trails almost as empty but when they left in 2019 they were overcrowded, must have been 10 times as many people out there. Others chimed in with similar stories. I wanted to tell these people to stop BS-ing but just let it go. People love hyperbole and exaggeration. Yeah there are more people around and it costs more to live in the area now but stop pretending this became Manhattan and your favorite trail is now Times Square. If one doesn't want to live here that's perfectly fine, I wish them well elsewhere. But notice there was a buyer or renter waiting to move in instantly when you left so many don't share your opinion of the area.
NW Arkansas is pretty, but it's not surprising the trails aren't crowded. The population of NW Arkansas is probably 1/10th of the Front Range, the climate sucks in the summer, and Arkansas is one of the fattest states in the nation. Over 35% of adults in Arkansas are classified as obese. Less competition all around.
The whole "the trails are so crowded" whine gets old. I did six alpine hikes last summer/fall - one 12er, four 13ers, and a 14er. All of them were within 2.5 hours of Denver. Mount Sherman was the only peak with more than 5 people at the summit. We had the summit completely to ourselves on the 12er and two of the 13ers. The other two 13ers had no more than 3 other people at the top. On the 12er we shared the summit with a herd of 30-50 elk. It was pretty incredible. I hiked to Elk Falls at Staunton with my hiking buddy a couple weeks ago. We saw ONE other person at the falls and only a dozen or so people on the trails total. Winter hiking is awesome.
Colorado has over 600 peaks above 13,000 feet and well over 5,000 miles of hiking trails. If someone can't find a decent hike with solitude then they're doing something wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil P
There's been like a great American outdoors awakening with Covid, millions of people realized that there's fun things to do outside that they didn't do before. That sits well for COs desirability as a whole, but I think people won't pay the egregious front range premium (and inferior outdoor experience knock) this next decade, they'll go to the Canon City and Salida's of the state.
You need some perspective. Try living in Dallas, OKC, or Houston, then talk to me about how "inferior" the outdoor experience is here. People aren't going to flock to Salida or Canon City because a) the available housing stock is low, b) rural areas of Colorado are cliquish AF, c) non-outdoor amenities are weak, d) access to high-speed internet is not guaranteed, and e) if you're not living in a resort area, chances are the schools suck.
I walk my neighborhood 3-5 times a week. There's a run-of-the-mill Richmond American home that's 7 or 8 years old. It was on the market for less than 3 days before it went under contract, but, yeah, nobody moves to Denver anymore.
Last edited by bluescreen73; 02-22-2022 at 10:12 PM..
OP, I was curious to hear more about this. I've always felt like I could never make it in Arizona for that reason. I seem to constantly be thirsty, needing a bottle of water with me most of the time, and when I was out there, it was non-stop. My nose gets crusty and bloody when the humidity's low and my skin is already old and dry. On the plus side, my curly/frizzy hair would probably look great, but otherwise I don't think a low-humidity climate would be my jam. Just wondering what your issues were.
Typical issues.....super dry skin, bloody noses, etc...started to need eye drops a lot. Fingers would bleed from drying out. I travel a lot and I noticed I sleep a lot better at lower altitudes.
Kids had super dry skin and would scratch them selves pretty bad too.
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