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NW Arkansas is pretty, but it's not surprising the trails aren't crowded. The population of NW Arkansas is probably 1/10th of the Front Range, the climate sucks in the summer, and Arkansas is one of the fattest states in the nation. Over 35% of adults in Arkansas are classified as obese. Less competition all around.
The whole "the trails are so crowded" whine gets old. I did six alpine hikes last summer/fall - one 12er, four 13ers, and a 14er. All of them were within 2.5 hours of Denver. Mount Sherman was the only peak with more than 5 people at the summit. We had the summit completely to ourselves on the 12er and two of the 13ers. The other two 13ers had no more than 3 other people at the top. On the 12er we shared the summit with a herd of 30-50 elk. It was pretty incredible. I hiked to Elk Falls at Staunton with my hiking buddy a couple weeks ago. We saw ONE other person at the falls and only a dozen or so people on the trails total. Winter hiking is awesome.
Colorado has over 600 peaks above 13,000 feet and well over 5,000 miles of hiking trails. If someone can't find a decent hike with solitude then they're doing something wrong.
You need some perspective. Try living in Dallas, OKC, or Houston, then talk to me about how "inferior" the outdoor experience is here. People aren't going to flock to Salida or Canon City because a) the available housing stock is low, b) rural areas of Colorado are cliquish AF, c) non-outdoor amenities are weak, d) access to high-speed internet is not guaranteed, and e) if you're not living in a resort area, chances are the schools suck.
I walk my neighborhood 3-5 times a week. There's a run-of-the-mill Richmond American home that's 7 or 8 years old. It was on the market for less than 3 days before it went under contract, but, yeah, nobody moves to Denver anymore.
CO/Front Range does have a ton of rec to offer. Possibly more than anywhere else. However, for me and my family those activities lost priority. I was hte only one that liked skiing. Now Ill just make a trip out of it somehwere for 5 days and get the same amount of skiing in I did living in Jeffco annually.
As far as weather....no place is perfect. Seattle is perfect for about 6 weeks/yr. I got tired of snow in APril/May and basically no Fall weather. I also being close to water. Those were my wishes, they're not everyones. Again for a young professional single or couple with no kids....CO is pretty great IMO.
Speaking of egregious premium, the median listing price/sq ft in Salida is currently more than double that of the Springs. Depending on which realtor site you believe, that is up as much as 50+% from one year ago.
Bingo!!! This is an indication of where the demand is funneling to. People will only move if there's housing available, but this is a pretty clear indication that the change demand on the west side of CO is greater than demand in the COS > Ft. Collins Corridor. This is where the future is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkwensky
Yes downtown retail will not likely recover to pre pandemic levels. Many restaurants are reopening in suburbs. However the total number of fully remote jobs is unlikely to exceed 2020 levels. A lot of jobs couldn't be done remotely, and for those that can people don't necessarily want to be fully remote. The overall number of completely remote jobs in the future will be between 2019 and 2020.
There are people who prefer small town life and those who prefer a suburban lifestyle or urban lifestyle. Some people do move to Denver for the entertainment, culture and other urban amenities first and the outdoors second. If you prioritize outdoor experience over these things then it makes sense to look into Idaho, SLC or Salida, but there are people like me who would never live in places so lacking in vibrancy. People with school age kids are also unlikely to move to a picturesque locale with high schools graduating class of 20.
You say there's an outrageous premium on living on the Front Range, but cities comparable to Denver like Seattle and Austin also have crowded trails, bad traffic and outrageous housing.
Huh??? There are WAY more remote jobs now than there were in 2020! WSJ keeps publishing on this, I'd post if it wasn't paywalled, but just 3% of the white collar workforce wants to return to a fully in person arrangement, 3%!!! Companies that are trying to go back in person, like the one I'm at, are really struggling to get people to actually show back up. People just are not driving back to the office, what the boss says be damned.
The have it all of a big city in the west is nice for sure, but now it's just a preference, it used to be a requirement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescreen73
NW Arkansas is pretty, but it's not surprising the trails aren't crowded. The population of NW Arkansas is probably 1/10th of the Front Range, the climate sucks in the summer, and Arkansas is one of the fattest states in the nation. Over 35% of adults in Arkansas are classified as obese. Less competition all around.
The whole "the trails are so crowded" whine gets old. I did six alpine hikes last summer/fall - one 12er, four 13ers, and a 14er. All of them were within 2.5 hours of Denver. Mount Sherman was the only peak with more than 5 people at the summit. We had the summit completely to ourselves on the 12er and two of the 13ers. The other two 13ers had no more than 3 other people at the top. On the 12er we shared the summit with a herd of 30-50 elk. It was pretty incredible. I hiked to Elk Falls at Staunton with my hiking buddy a couple weeks ago. We saw ONE other person at the falls and only a dozen or so people on the trails total. Winter hiking is awesome.
Colorado has over 600 peaks above 13,000 feet and well over 5,000 miles of hiking trails. If someone can't find a decent hike with solitude then they're doing something wrong.
You need some perspective. Try living in Dallas, OKC, or Houston, then talk to me about how "inferior" the outdoor experience is here. People aren't going to flock to Salida or Canon City because a) the available housing stock is low, b) rural areas of Colorado are cliquish AF, c) non-outdoor amenities are weak, d) access to high-speed internet is not guaranteed, and e) if you're not living in a resort area, chances are the schools suck.
I walk my neighborhood 3-5 times a week. There's a run-of-the-mill Richmond American home that's 7 or 8 years old. It was on the market for less than 3 days before it went under contract, but, yeah, nobody moves to Denver anymore.
NW Arkansas is a gem! It's not Phoenix or Miami, August in the upland south is still the nicer than January is. I hear way more whining about the weather in Jan here in ATL than I do in Aug. It's funny how many people in ATL wish it was warmer than it is. FWIW you can pretty much map how much $$$ a place in CO has by the elevation (temps) and precipitation. Steamboat vs Walden, BV vs Fairplay etc...
Obesity is related to income, and a lot of CO's healthy people are imported, not necessarily home grown.
You hit the nail on the head about crowded trails. Though I will say those are only weekend / full day availability. On a weekday night, you can't drive more than 30 mins to get the outdoor experience, and those closeby trails are the sucky crowded yoga pants runner ones. One nice things about where I'm at in ATL is my 5-30 minute drive radius parks are way nicer and more serine than the Denver option.
Remember, there's a whole wave of retirees now so the points above don't apply to them as much as a young family.
I think it's more helpful for the WFHers and retirees to move to areas with more quiet towns with struggling economies and free up housing in the bigger metros so that people who can't WFH can actually have a house.
Huh??? There are WAY more remote jobs now than there were in 2020! WSJ keeps publishing on this, I'd post if it wasn't paywalled, but just 3% of the white collar workforce wants to return to a fully in person arrangement, 3%!!! Companies that are trying to go back in person, like the one I'm at, are really struggling to get people to actually show back up. People just are not driving back to the office, what the boss says be damned.
The have it all of a big city in the west is nice for sure, but now it's just a preference, it used to be a requirement.
I was talking about when pretty much everyone but essential workers had to work from home due to lockdowns.
Companies are mostly switching to a hybrid model where you go in once or twice a week. There were some that shuttered their office space for sure but not really a large fraction. People for the most part still need to reside in the same metro unless they find a fully remote job. They can move a little bit further out but few people want to drive more than an hour even if it's just once a week.
The percentage of work that are 100% remote has gone up for sure but it's still under 20% if I remember correctly. Some statistics do not differentiate between hybrid and full remote.
Bingo!!! This is an indication of where the demand is funneling to. People will only move if there's housing available, but this is a pretty clear indication that the change demand on the west side of CO is greater than demand in the COS > Ft. Collins Corridor. This is where the future is.
Huh??? There are WAY more remote jobs now than there were in 2020! WSJ keeps publishing on this, I'd post if it wasn't paywalled, but just 3% of the white collar workforce wants to return to a fully in person arrangement, 3%!!! Companies that are trying to go back in person, like the one I'm at, are really struggling to get people to actually show back up. People just are not driving back to the office, what the boss says be damned.
The have it all of a big city in the west is nice for sure, but now it's just a preference, it used to be a requirement.
NW Arkansas is a gem! It's not Phoenix or Miami, August in the upland south is still the nicer than January is. I hear way more whining about the weather in Jan here in ATL than I do in Aug. It's funny how many people in ATL wish it was warmer than it is. FWIW you can pretty much map how much $$$ a place in CO has by the elevation (temps) and precipitation. Steamboat vs Walden, BV vs Fairplay etc...
Obesity is related to income, and a lot of CO's healthy people are imported, not necessarily home grown.
You hit the nail on the head about crowded trails. Though I will say those are only weekend / full day availability. On a weekday night, you can't drive more than 30 mins to get the outdoor experience, and those closeby trails are the sucky crowded yoga pants runner ones. One nice things about where I'm at in ATL is my 5-30 minute drive radius parks are way nicer and more serine than the Denver option.
Remember, there's a whole wave of retirees now so the points above don't apply to them as much as a young family.
I think it's more helpful for the WFHers and retirees to move to areas with more quiet towns with struggling economies and free up housing in the bigger metros so that people who can't WFH can actually have a house.
I too find it funny that people in ATL here think winter is too cold and describe FL as their ideal, lol. Crazy to me!
I agree heavily with your observations. It's a place to try, and works for some/many, but also a place that might not live up to expectations. There's an image from afar that it's perfect and has it "all together", but up close, doesn't live up to the hype. Also overpriced for what you actually get (home size, quality, yard space, etc.) Best of wishes to you and the future!
When I moved there I did not expect it to be perfect, no place is. The biggest upside for me was the weather. I was sick of the miserable Phoenix summers and ugly, dry treeless, grassless desert landscape but still wanted to live somewhere with plenty of outdoor adventure sports opportunities and Denver was right on the mark. Summers were amazing and I don't remember a single day where I felt that it was to hot to go outside and do the things I enjoy. Winters were also pleasant with intermittent snow, plenty of sunshine typically daytime highs in the 30's, very unlike the upper Midwest where temps are in the single digits often and a thick gray layer of cloud cover exists day after day after day.
Bingo!!! This is an indication of where the demand is funneling to. People will only move if there's housing available, but this is a pretty clear indication that the change demand on the west side of CO is greater than demand in the COS > Ft. Collins Corridor. This is where the future is.
Huh??? There are WAY more remote jobs now than there were in 2020! WSJ keeps publishing on this, I'd post if it wasn't paywalled, but just 3% of the white collar workforce wants to return to a fully in person arrangement, 3%!!! Companies that are trying to go back in person, like the one I'm at, are really struggling to get people to actually show back up. People just are not driving back to the office, what the boss says be damned.
The have it all of a big city in the west is nice for sure, but now it's just a preference, it used to be a requirement.
NW Arkansas is a gem! It's not Phoenix or Miami, August in the upland south is still the nicer than January is. I hear way more whining about the weather in Jan here in ATL than I do in Aug. It's funny how many people in ATL wish it was warmer than it is. FWIW you can pretty much map how much $$$ a place in CO has by the elevation (temps) and precipitation. Steamboat vs Walden, BV vs Fairplay etc...
Obesity is related to income, and a lot of CO's healthy people are imported, not necessarily home grown.
You hit the nail on the head about crowded trails. Though I will say those are only weekend / full day availability. On a weekday night, you can't drive more than 30 mins to get the outdoor experience, and those closeby trails are the sucky crowded yoga pants runner ones. One nice things about where I'm at in ATL is my 5-30 minute drive radius parks are way nicer and more serine than the Denver option.
Remember, there's a whole wave of retirees now so the points above don't apply to them as much as a young family.
I think it's more helpful for the WFHers and retirees to move to areas with more quiet towns with struggling economies and free up housing in the bigger metros so that people who can't WFH can actually have a house.
I haven't read this thread, just wanted to jump in to say I recently visited Bentonville, AR and it's a pretty awesome town. I grew up at 8000 feet in a northern state so the heat kills me there, but I really enjoyed mountain biking there. If I could get used to the humidity I'd consider it an awesome place to live.
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