why are women threatened with "growing old and lonely" if they don't have children and marry young? (legal, wisdom)

[mustangman66]

Im a guy, married and have kids but would prefer to grow old alone if I live that long. Comments to others suggesting the way they will feel if they dont do something should be kept silent in my opinion. Imagine taking their advice and marrying the first person that comes along...instead of being lonely, now there's a chance of being miserable too. Even if you do find the right spouse, theres a chance that they could die before you and you would still be lonely.

[Sonic_Spork]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

We can not escape biology. We can however overcome biology.

When we look at a woman, by design she is set apart to give birth and nurture. She has the parts, the ability and the innate skills to do that. When we see a person with one arm we know that most humans have two arms, that is by design. Having one arm is not the norm, however that can be 'overcome'...too. In much the same way, a woman who does not have children, is not the norm. That alone does not make it "abnormal".

Men simply are not designed to give birth and nurture in the same manner as a woman. Again biology is at hand. Same rules apply and with all biology absolutes do not exist. One off examples are misleading and generalizations are more accurate.

As far as loneliness is concerned, that is much more subjective, for both men and women. A woman who never had children is less likely (IMO) to experience childless loneliness than a woman who had children and lost them. My one off example(s) is I have two sisters who both did not have children. My older sister lost multiple children (miscarriages) and was acutely affected by her/their loss and ensuing loneliness she felt as she got older especially since I have 4 children, while my other sister who was never pregnant, couldn't give a hoot.

Men and women experience lonliness differently... especially as we age.

And men have the parts, ability and innate skills to run after megafauna throwing pointy sticks. Or at the minimum, to get out there and do hard labor. How dare any of you want to play video games or work in an office? That's just...not normal.



/massive sarcasm.

But to the bold, I completely agree.

Originally Posted by Cida

It makes sense to keep in mind that:

1.Men, getting older, can still nab women who are substantially younger, but it's not true for women.

2.Men, tending to get paid more, will be able to pay for "company."

I do agree with posts in this thread talking about less time for a woman to decide if she wants to have children before age will decide it for her...

But:
1. It IS true for women. You underestimate desperate 20-something guys on dating apps. And there are as many desperate to be loved as there are those desperate to get laid. At age 36 when I was out there "dating", the most common age of men I kept getting messages from was 27. I assume that this is because they were willing to go up to 10 years older than they were but not more than that? Just a guess. It seemed very strange at the time. Thing is though, because they didn't have their lives together I did not want them. So I'd say more to the point...older men WANT younger women. Older women do not always WANT younger men. But the older women I've known who are willing to take on boy-toys have no problem getting one. (By "older" I mean "past the point of wanting to start a family" to include my 36 year old self w/ tubes tied all the way up to women in their 60s.)

2. Mm, yeah...though I'd say that if you have to do that, you must be barely trying. There are plenty of women who are willing to have casual sex these days. I think that the paying makes more sense for the part where you don't need to have any ambiguity about the nature of the interaction and it can terminate promptly upon completion. Women could pay for company too if we wanted, but we don't have to. Hell, any woman who wants to have some fun can go online to a particular few websites with event and venue listings, go to their nearest city, join an adult club for kink or swinging, and get their groove on to their heart's content. Most women don't do this sort of thing because they don't WANT to, not because we CAN'T.

Originally Posted by springfieldva

I don't think that widowed women have ever been looked down upon. They were free to fall in love and remarry. Travel the world or whatever they saw fit to do.

It was the women who never married who were viewed as "old maids". Of course, never married single moms were definitely frowned upon and often encouraged to give their babies up for adoption.

Divorced women also used to get the side eye by some as being "experienced" and out to get or take a man.

I am talking in huge generalities, of course.

Perhaps. But my point was really more about a woman needing necessarily to have the company of a husband or children in her old age so as not to be lonely. I've seen plenty of situations where it was not so. And even having such is by no means any guarantee.

But I was also trying to make the point that the past often is not as people think. Like rather than watching what amounts to propaganda pieces (sitcoms and other entertainment) or listening to people talk about how the past was who were not there and didn't live it... I wish people would read more first hand accounts of life 50, 80, 100+ years ago. People keep saying for instance that women didn't work outside of the home...but they did. Millions did. Even before the wars took men overseas, women did. It's just easy to spin a different narrative because...get this...census takers asked men their profession, but they did not ask women. So the doings of women just weren't recorded or given much attention or interest.

Our ideas of the past are not always accurate. Especially if they are being used to prop up some kind of narrative or agenda in the present. People should read more. That's all. lol

Originally Posted by KaraG

That's a terrible type of loss to deal with.

As for the OP's question, I've never heard people tell any woman she should have children so she wouldn't be lonely. The older childless women I know either have a spouse or they have lived with their single sibling.

And it seems that older single childless men are the loneliest of all. Most women know how to be social.

Yep.

And, too, I have known some people who live alone by choice, who will say that they are happy and not lonely...but they are able to connect with others around them when they choose to. The ones who seem to be actually lonely, have convinced themselves that either they can't or don't want to engage with people in the world as friends, they could only be "not lonely" if they had the company of a spouse, partner, children, etc. Obligatory company.

[Lodestar]

From my observations of doing volunteer work in nursing homes and care centers the majority of men who have reached that age and required care there seem more unhappy than the women seem to be. For a lot of women it means finally having someone else take care of you for a change. For the men it means no one connected to you taking care of your private needs.

It's a switch on the "you can't grieve something you never had!" Maybe that's where men are at a disadvantage in the traditional role.

Women traditionally have been the leaders in caregiving others. First children and family and finally their own older family members and often their spouse's family members.

At least that's my interpretation. Women, as mentioned spend their lives networking with other women to support them and with those caregiver roles have learned a number of recreational pastimes they can do indoors to keep themselves occupied. Often men's hobbies have traditionally been more active ones. Maybe that's changing some now?

The same with male intimacy. The older generations had little permission for men to have honest discussions about their feelings and needs. At least we are talking about it more.

So now I'm wondering if our more independent, child-free women will chafe at the loss of their freedom should they live to be permanently cared for.

I guess ultimately it's a poor substitute either way. No matter how you look at it age will bring unwelcome restrictions.

My own personal definition of Feminism is supporting a woman in whatever choice she makes regarding where she puts her energies as long as there is no threat of severe physical or mental danger.

[rummage]

Originally Posted by stormgal

Why is it that everyone always throws the response of, "If you don't have children or get married, you will be lonely when you grow older." This comment is always made towards young women but never to men.

The remark comes from people who have children, and this is their justification for having children when they really didn't want them, and projecting doom and gloom on others.

There are plenty of families that have children and as adults the children are estranged from the parents for a number of reasons. Or the children have moved far away where they couldn't possibly be of assistance to the parents.

The idea of creating additional humans so when you get old you expect them to help you is selfish and sick.

[FordBronco1967]

Originally Posted by stormgal

Why is it that everyone always throws the response of, "If you don't have children or get married, you will be lonely when you grow older." This comment is always made towards young women but never to men.

What makes people think that all women want to be married with children (which I personally see as a ball and chain), and even worse - that they want to have children? The thought of having children makes me shiver because it is too much of a responsibility that I never wanted.

Also, why is "growing old and alone" a subject for women to fear, but never directed at men? Not even gay men are told that.

Here's what I think:

1. This is to put pressure on women into thinking they need a man and babies to be happy
2. Men can only feel like men if and only if women are dependent on them
3. Men who make these types of videos on YouTube fear that they are losing control over women

Also, what makes people think that if they have a family, that they will never be lonely? Seriously, this is why people cheat, divorce, and/or never visit their parents after their parents age.

A friend of mine in her 50's had the perfect husband and child. Her husband recently died of a sudden heart attack and her son is now going off to college. Now she's complaining about being lonely. Meanwhile, I'm not. I never that those losses.

Because women have a limited timeframe to procreate. That is not necessarily true of men. If women want children, they need to get moving quicker. A lot of women who want a career and children wait till their thirties to "find Mr. right", as they focus on their careers. A lot of those women end up childless, despite not wanting to end up that way. And the one's who do have children tend to have less than they may have wanted. Because of women's biological clock, as a society, we should be telling women who want children and a career to get married and have children in their twenties, so that they can begin their careers in their thirties, when their children are at school.

As far as "growing old and lonely", it's true of both men and women. Society may not direct that at men, but that doesn't make it any less true.

I find it sad when men and women say they don't want children. Reproduction is one of the greatest gifts we've been given and it's never been safer to reproduce. I've enjoyed my short twenty-three years on this Earth so much that I absolutely want to bring more people into this world to share that joy with. After all, as far as we know, our very existence is exceedingly rare in all that we know, despite how complex reproduction is, yet being as plentiful on this Earth as it is. Millions of people before me have given this opportunity to me and I feel a sense of duty to give that opportunity to others as well. But, to each his own.

[Ice_Major]

To the OP point, I don't think people bring it up with men as much for two reasons

1) Society as a whole, doesn't care about men to the same extent as women.
2) Childless women is a new phenomenon. While large numbers of childless men have been around forever.

Studies vary but somewhere around 50% of all men whom have ever walked the earth got the opportunity to reproduce. This is contrast with 90% of women. Easy to see why society finds it more shocking for women and therefore more prone to speak out.

[Dave_n_Tenn]

I'm not sure the word threatened is what's happening. However it's quite possible women are given advise they may not want to hear and I sincerely doubt that advise is coming from men.

Women judge and impart guilt... and sometimes women feel like they're treated differently and somewhat mistrusted by other women who are mothers. I get that. Not sure that's abnormal. I suppose for a woman who chooses not to have children they're not nearly affected by those situations, but if a woman who wants children and for whatever reason can not... certain words can be like knives... and one thing for sure women can use words like knives.

[hbdwihdh378y9]

Originally Posted by stormgal

Why is it that everyone always throws the response of, "If you don't have children or get married, you will be lonely when you grow older." This comment is always made towards young women but never to men.

What makes people think that all women want to be married with children (which I personally see as a ball and chain), and even worse - that they want to have children?

Obviously people don't think all women want to be married with children; otherwise they wouldn't make the comment you mention.

A lot of people do think some women who don't want to be married with children will regret that later, when it's too late, and they'retrying to be helpful.

[hbdwihdh378y9]

Originally Posted by stormgal

Here's what I think:

1. This is to put pressure on women into thinking they need a man and babies to be happy
2. Men can only feel like men if and only if women are dependent on them
3. Men who make these types of videos on YouTube fear that they are losing control over women

All of those things are false. There are no men who feel the things you are supposing in 2 and 3. As for 1, if women don't have babies, the human race goes extinct. It has nothing to do with the happiness of individual women. It's about the fact that -- soon -- there won't be any more women if women don't have babies.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn

I'm not sure the word threatened is what's happening. However it's quite possible women are given advise they may not want to hear and I sincerely doubt that advise is coming from men.

Women judge and impart guilt... and sometimes women feel like they're treated differently and somewhat mistrusted by other women who are mothers. I get that. Not sure that's abnormal. I suppose for a woman who chooses not to have children they're not nearly affected by those situations, but if a woman who wants children and for whatever reason can not... certain words can be like knives... and one thing for sure women can use words like knives.

Thank you. The word threatened is probably close enough; other terms for what the OP is talking about might also be described as alarm, browbeat, bully, caution, coerce, cow, frighten, intimidate, portend, predict, pressure, scare, warn, etc. Pretty safe to say that whatever the motive of the speaker, those remarks are not welcome with the recipient. Better to say nothing and not be nosy. Let the woman speak to that issue if and when she ever wants to, else we should butt out and leave others alone, granting them the dignity of their own life choices.

Probably foolish of me to speculate, but there probably are some women who resent it when other women opt out on the difficulties and sacrifices of pregnancy, childbirth, child rearing and two decades of parenting -- which can be a very difficult path for a given percentage of women. Some of these women may also resent that the child-free women is not shackled to a lousy partner but is stuck in what in her case is an unrewarding role of housewife and mother. I think most of us have seen real or movie stereotypes of the neighborhood busybody who pries into everyone's affairs as if she is the gatekeeper of community morality. I guess it takes all kinds.