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I did not say the migrant workers are all, or even primarily illegal! I stated that they were (mostly) Mexican, and migrant, meaning they would travel through the harvest season rather than permanently staying in one place. Migrant does not equal illegal. That was your presupposition.
Yeah, it's really stupid that people are now using "migrant" to mean illegal immigrant, I guess because they're too lazy to use six syllables.
It already meant something else, which is somewhat related, so it causes confusion.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was a deliberate ploy to make all migrant workers (any workers who travel from farm to farm) seem to be illegal, no matter their actual status.
It's working here on CD, where pretty much anyone who appears to be Hispanic is now referred to as a migrant.
Many are from families that have been here for generations (sometimes from before the European invasion), and are not even immigrants, much less illegal.
Yeah, it's really stupid that people are now using "migrant" to mean illegal immigrant, I guess because they're too lazy to use six syllables.
It already meant something else, which is somewhat related, so it causes confusion.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was a deliberate ploy to make all migrant workers (any workers who travel from farm to farm) seem to be illegal, no matter their actual status.
It's working here on CD, where pretty much anyone who appears to be Hispanic is now referred to as a migrant.
Many are from families that have been here for generations (sometimes from before the European invasion), and are not even immigrants, much less illegal.
No one here on CD thinks that all Hispanics are either migrants or illegal aliens. There was no European invasion either that's mostly coming from south of our border.
No one here on CD thinks that all Hispanics are either migrants or illegal aliens. There was no European invasion either that's mostly coming from south of our border.
Right, no European invasion. We were all invited by the indigenous people...
We have unlimited visas for legal, foreign farm workers so what's the problem? Only a small percentage of illegals are picking crops. Most of them have taken jobs that use to pay a liveable wage from Americans by working for less. The construction industry is a prime example of it.
A lot of these low paying jobs have flooded our economy and are unnecessary and if not enough Americans can be found to work them then they just need to fold up and die. Not enough income taxes and other taxes can be generated to cover the social costs of those who work them anyway. There is the added stress on our housing, healthcare, schools and natural resources to.
They use illegal labor paying less, and the taxpayers pick up the cost of their emergency medical, birthing and raising their kids, housing once they drop an anchor baby, etc. Migrant workers come in, and have to have equal wages and be covered for certain things, and they go HOME.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
Are you unaware of the unlimited visas for legal, foreign farm workers? There is no need for illegal Mexican immigrants to do those jobs If the farmers had fruit falling off the trees and rotting on the ground then it's their own damned fault for not using those visas.
Or paying enough to have it picked, or investing in technology to do it for them, or opening it up for people to pick their own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot
If imported produce is an isssue for you, buy fresh produce from your local farmer's market. If you live in a climate zone that doesn't allow for year-round farmer's markets, then either go without fresh produce during the off months, or suck it up and buy what has been imported.
This has almost nothing to do with illegal immigration. I am fortunate to live where we do have a year-round growing season and the farmer's market is always open, but if it's not in season locally, I don't buy it. This means for example no peaches or apricots in January, and there are segments here and there when avocados are just not available.
By the way, one of my sisters lived in the orchard country around Wenatchee, Washington. The middle school where she taught had a huge percentage of children of migrant fruit pickers from Mexico. She told me that at one point the farmers were encouraged to employ local high school and college students to pick the apples and cherries instead. They tried, but found that none of the American teens and young adults would do the work. They would quit after one day. Literally, without the Mexican migrants, that fruit would fall off the trees and rot.
It is healthier to "eat with the seasons". Also, MOST of the produce can be grown in the warmer areas of OUR country. For one grapefruit this time of year, yet it is coming in from Mexico, which I suspect put those with orchards out of business when NAFTA came about. So our dollars go to Mexico! But we can borrow several more billions from foreign countries to cover it.
If you can't hire help, you raise the wage, and treat people like human beings, of course, with illegals, you don't have to do either. During Trump's presidential term, the illegals got antsy, and some were leaving fearing the border would be sealed. The chicken factory put up a "Help Wanted" sign, and in 2 or 3 days, they had all the new hires they needed, and the sign didn't go back up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow
I used to live in that area when I was a teen. Yes, American youth did indeed used to do those jobs. I picked apples over the summer. It's a LIE that they can't find Americans who will do the job. They just don't want to pay as much, so they make up that excuse.
They don't pay enough, and the illegals fearing retribution are much easier to exploit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot
I did not say the migrant workers are all, or even primarily illegal! I stated that they were (mostly) Mexican, and migrant, meaning they would travel through the harvest season rather than permanently staying in one place. Migrant does not equal illegal. That was your presupposition.
Migrant will be here on a visa, limited to one year which can be extended one year at a time for a total of 3 years. If these migrants were staying longer, and did not have a visa, they were illegal aliens at that point. Moving around to areas in the US does not equal Migrant, as again without the visa, they are illegal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus
I am so sorry to inform you all of the real truth about imported produce from Mexico.
First...my source of information...JC Valenti, aka DiMare produce, one of the largest growers of domestically grown tomatoes..up until ~30 years ago.
Then, NAFTA happened, & today he's likely out of business. Why?
Mr. Valenti told me that in Mexico, they irrigate their crops w/ untreated water....sewer water. In the USA, this is illegal, and growers must use filtered water.
That cost advantage was enough to put him out of business.
That has happened to so many of our businesses when the tariffs were removed, and that is why the US is in the hole with so many of our dollars leaving the country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steiconi
Yeah, it's really stupid that people are now using "migrant" to mean illegal immigrant, I guess because they're too lazy to use six syllables.
It already meant something else, which is somewhat related, so it causes confusion.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was a deliberate ploy to make all migrant workers (any workers who travel from farm to farm) seem to be illegal, no matter their actual status.
It's working here on CD, where pretty much anyone who appears to be Hispanic is now referred to as a migrant.
Many are from families that have been here for generations (sometimes from before the European invasion), and are not even immigrants, much less illegal.
Maybe the problem is that ignorance surrounding the terms. If the "migrant" isn't here on a visa, that is not a migrant, but an illegal alien. If they aren't a citizen, a legal resident or here on a visa, they are here illegally. So, again, as long as the migrant is here on a visa, which is for one year, and can be extended to allow up to 3 years before they must leave the country, they are not an illegal, otherwise they are.
Please don't waste your time with it being about being "Hispanic", because decent "Hispanics" also support the immigration laws of our country. And, you are implying that all migrant workers are "Hispanic". Hey, as long as they have their visa, are a legal immigrant or citizen, no one has an issue with their presence, which you already know.
Migrant is a classification which NEVER applies to illegal aliens. A migrant must have legal status or they are an illegal aliens, and with all the mechanization, there is no work for them.
Support your local farmer's market! Eating what is in season in your area is actually a very healthy way to go. "Eat with the seasons"!
Not enough workers in the field to produce good veg. Most of my local farmers only grow expensive crops like organic beets, carrots, and corn. Cheap produce is produced in 3rd world country and shipped here. They have the cheaper labor to process them.
Migrant will be here on a visa, limited to one year which can be extended one year at a time for a total of 3 years. If these migrants were staying longer, and did not have a visa, they were illegal aliens at that point. Moving around to areas in the US does not equal Migrant, as again without the visa, they are illegal.
...
Maybe the problem is that ignorance surrounding the terms. If the "migrant" isn't here on a visa, that is not a migrant, but an illegal alien. If they aren't a citizen, a legal resident or here on a visa, they are here illegally. So, again, as long as the migrant is here on a visa, which is for one year, and can be extended to allow up to 3 years before they must leave the country, they are not an illegal, otherwise they are.
...
Migrant is a classification which NEVER applies to illegal aliens. A migrant must have legal status or they are an illegal aliens, and with all the mechanization, there is no work for them.
Migrant workers will be on a visa if they are not US citizens and not here illegally. I think you understand the difference, but what you wrote does not make it entirely clear that "migrant" actually does not refer to citizenship or immigrant status.
My family has been in this country for several generations. but if I decided to pick peaches and travel northward with the harvest every year, that would make me a migrant farm worker. And a US citizen too, of course.
As you stated, the problem is with the sloppy use of terminology. People hear "migrant" and immediately assume, "illegal alien!!" Which is sometimes but far from always the case.
Um...I see it as you've typed it, OP: For nearly 50 years at least, a significant amount (>25%) of our produce has come from other nations. In the past fifty years - even MORE - now almost half- is from out of the country. But only now should I be surprised?
If you (anyone) did not know that lots of fruits and vegetables come from outside the USA - look in the mirror. This has been public and common knowledge for a lonnnnng long time. Lots more people here now than ever before, so makes sense we import more now than before.
They didn't need an invite. There were no immigration laws, established borders or a country with a government back then.
Maybe no written laws but I'm sure the Native Americans considered the land theirs as they squabbled with each other also. To completely excuse the Europeans while excoriating other groups, many of which have much the same blood as the Native Americans is quite hypocritical.
Maybe no written laws but I'm sure the Native Americans considered the land theirs as they squabbled with each other also. To completely excuse the Europeans while excoriating other groups, many of which have much the same blood as the Native Americans is quite hypocritical.
Conquest is the story of the entire world since time immemorial. Stronger groups conquered weaker groups, took their land, and killed or assimilated their people, and it's only in the past couple of hundred years that we have even started to be squeamish about that. The current self-flagellation of European descendants in the New World is really quite silly; our ancestors weren't doing anything anyone else's ancestors didn't do.
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