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If one is looking to buy a house in northern IN , north of Indy which locations/towns should I be looking at ?
I mean looking for something long term where I can put down roots
esp a safe area and with reasonably good schools
SO far I have job offers from Logansport IN and Portage IN, but unable to decide where to buy a house as both of these towns dont look so great but they offer much better pay then INdy and south bend for instance
Logansport is kind of in the middle of nowhere. The nearest big cities are Kokomo or Lafayette. Portage isn't a bad area. You can be in downtown Chicago typically in less than an hour if you don't mind paying tolls. I don't know if Portage has much of a real identity. There's no real downtown. It's pretty suburban. If you really didn't want to be in Portage, Valparaiso would probably by my first choice of cities to live in. But Chesterton and Hobart aren't bad either. Those are both a bit closer to Portage than Valpo.
If one is looking to buy a house in northern IN , north of Indy which locations/towns should I be looking at ?
I mean looking for something long term where I can put down roots
esp a safe area and with reasonably good schools
SO far I have job offers from Logansport IN and Portage IN, but unable to decide where to buy a house as both of these towns dont look so great but they offer much better pay then INdy and south bend for instance
I will admit I am a bit confused by some points you've made. Specifically, in that areas like Carmel/Fishers are politically blue.
I was painting with a very broad brush. Indianapolis is significantly more blue than most of the rest of the state. Carnel and Fishers are outside of Marion County by like 2 miles. I was, perhaps incorrectly, throwing that baby out with the bathwater too as I assumed opinions really didn't change all that much in 2 miles.
To me, it would be akin to living in a red neighborhood near Chicago (should one exist). It's still too close to Chicago.
Carmel abuts Marion County. Even in a city, you can cross a street and be in a very different neighborhood.
For anyone who's interested, here's a precinct-level map of the last few presidential elections. Carmel is light red; Indy is (if all mixed together) purplish-blue. https://decisiondeskhq.com/data-dive...-precinct-map/
Carmel abuts Marion County. Even in a city, you can cross a street and be in a very different neighborhood.
For anyone who's interested, here's a precinct-level map of the last few presidential elections. Carmel is light red; Indy is (if all mixed together) purplish-blue. https://decisiondeskhq.com/data-dive...-precinct-map/
It's an interesting map, thanks for sharing. A bit confusing, as when I type in certain addresses or zip codes it doesn't pinpoint the precinct. It seems to only recognize whole cities.
I was painting with a very broad brush. Indianapolis is significantly more blue than most of the rest of the state. Carnel and Fishers are outside of Marion County by like 2 miles. I was, perhaps incorrectly, throwing that baby out with the bathwater too as I assumed opinions really didn't change all that much in 2 miles.
To me, it would be akin to living in a red neighborhood near Chicago (should one exist). It's still too close to Chicago.
Just my opinion...
I understand what you meant. Such is the case in some areas of NYC, and there's usually a reason for such people settling just outside the city while controlling their political representation.
For example, of NYC's 5 boroughs, 4 of the 5 boroughs are heavily democratic; Democrats winning elections by over 40 points. There's one borough however that's a maverick; Staten Island. It is, without question, the cleanest and most affluent borough in the city. And it just so happens to always vote Republican. In fact, the only Republican congressman from NYC lives in Staten Island, as it has enough residents to warrant an entire U.S district. The area is mocked and ridiculed by the rest of NYC, and yet it has some of the best schools, lowest poverty rates, and highest per capita income in the city--go figure!
All one has to do is speak to the locals and ask why they all choose to settle in the specific area. They want to be close to the city; it's great for work and there's a lot to do entertainment wise. But do they want to live in the city streets--dealing with the crime, the sanitation issues, the high cost of living, the overpopulation? In addition, do they want to be represented politically by those they adamantly disagree with? And so they head home to their quiet piece of bliss, about an hour away. Away from the hustle and bustle. The community is smaller and more involved, and the area is just considerably more pleasant in general.
And so I do believe there are red suburbs in every major city--Chicago, NYC, Indianapolis--everywhere. They will undoubtedly hold some values that are in unison with their nearby cities, but the majority of their values are at odds--which is exactly why they live outside the city as opposed to within the city. These suburbs aren't ruby red, per say, as they tend to be more moderate than conservative. A salmon pink, if you will. This is personified by which candidates get the suburban Republicans energized and go out to vote. Mitt Romney, as moderate a Republican as it gets, did exceptionally well with the suburban vote in 2012--much better than Trump in 2016. There is a lot to turn Trump off to suburban Republicans, but he ran as a conservative and that didn't nearly resonate with suburban Republicans as much. Areas where Romney was winning by over 20 points Trump had only won by 5 or less, and some even flipped for Clinton.
Last edited by MillennialMaverick; 03-27-2018 at 08:54 PM..
For example, of NYC's 5 boroughs, 4 of the 5 boroughs are heavily democratic; Democrats winning elections by over 40 points. There's one borough however that's a maverick; Staten Island. It is, without question, the cleanest and most affluent borough in the city. And it just so happens to always vote Republican. In fact, the only Republican congressman from NYC lives in Staten Island, as it has enough residents to warrant an entire U.S district. The area is mocked and ridiculed by the rest of NYC, and yet it has some of the best schools, lowest poverty rates, and highest per capita income in the city--go figure!
Actually, Manhattan has the highest per capita income--one of the highest in the U.S. Staten Island has the highest household income in NYC.
For me, a big factor in choosing my house was cost. Carmel is a terrific place and I'd be a lot closer to work if I lived there. But is it $100,000 worth of better than where I live? Nope. And I don't think, for me, life would be as interesting in Carmel. The Near East side is an old area that's seen a lot of changes, and it's interesting to see what has and hasn't worked, and how it fits in--or doesn't--with economic and libertarian ideas. The neighbors in Little Flower, where I live, are mostly great--though we have our share of nuttiness on the Near East side. But--variety is the spice of life.
It's not clear what is your exact timeline for when you would make such a move (based on your OP, looks like 5+ years out) - one thing I would recommend is checking in again with these questions when you are closer to the actual transition into suburban family life. Hamilton County has been evolving rapidly over the past 5-10 years - population explosion and tons of development and re-development. Older homes being bought out and razed for newer projects, including higher density housing and mixed use developments (they've been building a lot of apartments, especially over businesses, and villa/townhome structures). Who knows what things will look like several years from now. 30 years ago, Fishers was a sleepy town of less than 10K. This is not to discourage you, and I think the present discussion continues to be useful, but just be mindful that this is not an entirely stable, settled region, and there's still much in flux.
For me, a big factor in choosing my house was cost. Carmel is a terrific place and I'd be a lot closer to work if I lived there. But is it $100,000 worth of better than where I live? Nope. And I don't think, for me, life would be as interesting in Carmel. The Near East side is an old area that's seen a lot of changes, and it's interesting to see what has and hasn't worked, and how it fits in--or doesn't--with economic and libertarian ideas. The neighbors in Little Flower, where I live, are mostly great--though we have our share of nuttiness on the Near East side. But--variety is the spice of life.
So like I've mentioned, living in one of these upper crust affluent suburbs would be the ultimate//eventual goal of my relocation. It will be the driving aspiration of my relocation effort. I am fully prepared to rough it out for as long as necessary in an apartment where I can focus on building my capital, networking, and making the move. If that means seeking affordable housing even within Indianapolis itself, so be it. So many stories start with an ambitious person roughing it out in the city until they have enough means to live more affluently in the suburbs/country. As long as I don't get complacent (which I never really do, always hungry) and keep my eyes on the prize, I won't stay in any apartment long. I'm working on making sure I have options that will help in achieving my goal with more haste (hence my military service).
All in all, I consider any relocation effort on my part to be an investment. I am investing towards a future that I aspire to have, to live in a home and community that resonates deeply with me. I consider myself blessed in the fact that I know exactly what I like and what I dislike, and so my path is clear. It's not a matter of "what/why" but rather "how/when", if that makes sense. Like all investments, this will take time to materialize and come into fruition, and I'll just have to be diligent throughout the process. I'll likely adopt your mentality in the beginning, focusing more on frugality and convenience than anything aspirational, but knowing myself that'll just be temporary.
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Originally Posted by IndyDancer
It's not clear what is your exact timeline for when you would make such a move (based on your OP, looks like 5+ years out) - one thing I would recommend is checking in again with these questions when you are closer to the actual transition into suburban family life. Hamilton County has been evolving rapidly over the past 5-10 years - population explosion and tons of development and re-development. Older homes being bought out and razed for newer projects, including higher density housing and mixed use developments (they've been building a lot of apartments, especially over businesses, and villa/townhome structures). Who knows what things will look like several years from now. 30 years ago, Fishers was a sleepy town of less than 10K. This is not to discourage you, and I think the present discussion continues to be useful, but just be mindful that this is not an entirely stable, settled region, and there's still much in flux.
Carry on.
So I generally avoid giving timelines as we all know how sporadic and unpredictable life can (that's why we make plans, right?) but yeah you're right on the money, this is a 5 year investment into a relocation effort (2 for grad school in D.C, 3 for military service).
The advice you give is what is constantly on my mind when I think of these plans. Areas I resonate with now may not resemble the same areas by the time I'm ready to finally make the move. I've mentioned that before, it's worrisome but there's nothing we can do about it. It'll be fascinating to see the natural evolution of these areas within 5 years time. If they no longer represent what I'm looking for in a home, then so be it. If they still represent what I am looking for, then it'll bolster my confidence in the areas--as they have withstood the test of time.
I will admit something that troubled me when researching Carmel and Fishers is how populated it is. Not that I am against living in populated areas, otherwise I'd just live in the country, but there comes a point where suburbs grow large enough to become urban areas in their own right. The areas are on the fast track to gaining over 100k residents, and while they're already technically cities, they resemble suburbs more than anything else. I wonder how much that will change as the population continues to expand and the areas make the necessary adjustments. We'll just have to see, it's very possible that Carmel and Fishers won't even be called suburbs within 10-20 years time, but full blown cities.
Over the years I've frequently loved to travel to suburban and small town areas across the country. From the constituency to the culture, it resonates in a more profound way than any urban environment does. As I became older and began to understand/appreciate the nuances of politics and society, it became more clear to me as to why exactly I felt so at home in such areas and why I felt so repulsed in large cities.
I'm almost double your age. I lived in Indy my entire life, which has been both good and bad. It sounds like you've done more than I did at your age. I leaned toward being an introvert, not really a get out and do stuff type guy. Like you I was drawn to more rural, less populated areas. I almost purchased a house on the extreme eastern edge of the Indy metro area, but thankfully didn't. The rise in gas would've been a killer. Plus, the long drives can make a family life difficult.
What I've learned over my years is that for the most part, jobs now are going to be centered around urban and suburban areas of major cities (I'd say metro areas of 750K+, if not 1M+). There are some small towns like Cicero, Bargersville, and Trafalgar. Close to certain jobs, close to larger suburban shopping and such, plus not really all that far from downtown Indy.
My own personal tastes have changed as well. I actually wouldn't mind living in downtown Indy, or maybe even some of the popular areas of the city (Fountain Square, Broad Ripple). If I had kids though, those areas would be off the list. I just couldn't afford a home in those areas plus private school tuition (the city schools aren't very good).
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Originally Posted by MillennialMaverick
Just to give you an idea of what kinds of states/constituencies/cultures I'm looking for, some of my top contenders are: Ohio, Pennsylvania, Idaho, Missouri, and South Carolina.
I am something of an outdoors-man, with my favorite hobbies including hiking and sport-shooting (not hunting).
Some things I particularly like about Indiana from my research;-Low cost of living -Property taxes aren't insane like nearby Ohio lol -Politically conservative constituency and strong Republican foothold -Gun friendly culture -Flat state-income tax -Soon to have a state balanced budget amendment -Light traffic/courteous drivers (I'm not much of a driver, NYC does that to a person, so this is a relief to me)
The states you listed can be pretty different in many categories. Climate, geography, geology, political landscape.
With your hobbies and likes:
Indianapolis/Indiana isn't as low cost as it once was. Places like Indiana really just make it more logical to own a home vs renting. It doesn't mean we are really a "cheap" place to live. Trust me, lots of people are living paycheck-to-paycheck here. Even those with nice custom homes. Since custom homes are much less here than say California, PNW, etc., I think people here tend to spend maybe more than they should on housing. The definition of affordable always depends on the individual.
We are politically conservative, to an extent, but even I think we will slowly shift left over-time. A balanced budget is a joke. States can claim whatever they want, but they always will need more money. We might not want to raise taxes for schools, but our politicians are salivating at tolling every interstate mile we have after they just raised the gas tax.
Our traffic is so so. Rush hours bad, but not really long lasting. Some of the suburban areas though haven't done a good job in road widening, especially older two lane US/State highways that are now at capacity. There are lots of people I get stuck behind doing 5MPH slower and maybe hit the speed limit. There are sometimes no way to pass these people, as traffic is so heavy. Other areas have done better with traffic.
The biggest issue might be that you sound like you are outdoorsy, specifically hiking. I've hiked in Alaska, Tennessee, North Carolina, Montana, and Utah all within the last five years. Indiana's hiking is very low-key. No matter how great some folks try to make Turkey Run or Brown County State Parks sound, the fact is that grand views are minimal, distance and cool places to wind-up (ie: Back country chalets, grand waterfalls, etc.) are low tier. We have options, they just aren't as majestic as other places.
I know we all have our "what if..." moments from time to time. For me, my "what if..." life, given what I know now, would have me pick a career that would allow me to do good (doesn't have to be great) financially, but also be in demand in large metro areas to allow for easy relocation. I never thought I'd want anything to do with CA, but that is because I didn't know much about CA. Given my desire for an active, outdoorsy lifestyle myself, I like what I see in California, especially S. California. The problem though is cost-of-living out there is just ridiculous, as it is in the PNW which would be an option. Right now I'm focused on Knoxville, TN, North Carolina, or South Carolina for the eastern part of the country. For the western part, I wouldn't mind the Las Vegas area. Not sure if I want to deal with the winters in Colorado or most parts of Utah.
Overall Indiana isn't a bad place. Most of "rural" Indiana won't have much for you, unless you are willing to drive an hourish for a decent job. Fact is, most of "rural" Indiana isn't really all that rural. In Indiana you can be at some place of 100K+ people within a one hour drive. Add another hour and one is basically in some metro area of 1M+ people. My life here has been good, not just for me but my family and friends. Family mostly kept all of us here. A few have thought about leaving, but great jobs and that family bond has made it hard for some to really do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillennialMaverick
I will admit something that troubled me when researching Carmel and Fishers is how populated it is. Not that I am against living in populated areas, otherwise I'd just live in the country, but there comes a point where suburbs grow large enough to become urban areas in their own right. The areas are on the fast track to gaining over 100k residents, and while they're already technically cities, they resemble suburbs more than anything else. I wonder how much that will change as the population continues to expand and the areas make the necessary adjustments. We'll just have to see, it's very possible that Carmel and Fishers won't even be called suburbs within 10-20 years time, but full blown cities.
They are cities. Maybe not like old, historic type cities, but they are 21st century cities, born of white flight and a small to non-existent population of lower income class people. My wife and I had a house built to the NE of Indy. The growth has been constant, and still going. Between far eastern Fishers and Noblesville, they have had to have built around 200-300 homes since we've been coming up to our home while it was being built and living it. They are still building. The thing is, Fishers and Carmel are basically tapped out of land to build. Might be a few more fields here and there, but Fishers has built all the way to Fortville's doorstep. All that farm land being converted to neighborhoods. So what you see is likely what will be, as unless someone starts building high rises, and lots of them, there just won't be room for anymore people.
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