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THE POPULATION QUESTION
Those advocating a long oppression, and a stay of 430 years in Goshen, often do so on the basis of population. It is impossible, they say, for 70 people to become 2,000,000 in only 215 years. This is wrong on two counts. First, although only 70 of Jacob's immediate family went down into Egypt (Ex. 1), their servants went along as well. Abraham had 318 trained fighting men in his sheikdom. Estimates range up to 3000 or more for his complete household. These servants multiplied and became those of Isaac and Jacob. It might have been 10,000 people who moved to Goshen.
Ten thousand people may mean 5000 males. If each man had five sons, the next generation would be 25,000. If each son had five sons, the third generation would be 125,000. If each son had five sons, the fourth (exodus) generation would be 625,000, which is roughly the number of males that exited Egypt (625,550; Num. 1:46; 3:39). But that fourth generation was Moses' age, who was 80 at the time of the exodus. Thus, there is room for a fifth, which would be 3,125,000, plus their 625,000 fathers, for a total of 3,650,000 males. Obviously, the population could easily have increased that much in 215 years.
Let's assume that there were 1000 males who went to Goshen. Assume five sons for each mail. Second generation is 5000, third is 25,000, fourth is 125,000, and fifth is 625,000. It still works just fine. And remember, the "four generations" are very stretched out. There were actually more generations in most lines.
But let's assume that only Jacob's immediate family went down to Egypt. J. B. Murphy writes, "As the average of seven generations from Arpachshad to Nahor was 31 years, when men lived from 348 to 148 years, we may safely assume 30 years as a generation, and, therefore, seven generations in 210 years. As Abraham had six sons by Keturah, and Jacob six by Leah, we may also suppose each parent to have four sons on an average, when the divine blessing of fruitfulness was promised (Gen. 35:11), and actually bestowed in Egypt (Ex. 1:7). With 68 males for the first term, 8 for the number of terms, and 4 for the common ratio, the last term, or the number of males at the exodus, would be 1,114,112. This is considerably above the actual number, and therefore allows for a smaller number of generations in particular lines, as that of Moses. With a special promise of fruitfulness, and an exceedingly fertile soil [Goshen], this cannot be regarded as either an impossible or improbable increase."
Gary North has discussed this question in detail in his book Moses and Pharaoh. North argues conservatively that in terms of biological reproduction we can get close, but not close enough, to the 2,000,000 figure. North argues further, however, that there were many circumcised converts that joined the Hebrews, especially in the early years of the sojourn when Joseph was popular. Elsewhere I have argued that Genesis 41-50 consistently presents a picture of a converted Egypt. Thus, based on Genesis 41-50, I think North has got it right.
RESPONSE:
Nice attempt to try to maintain a literal interpretation of the Bible.
>>It might have been 10,000 people who moved to Goshen<<
Only "MIght have"????
Unfortunately, there is not mention in scripture regarding this.
Exodus 12:40 -- The Hebrews lived for 430 years in Egypt. Acts 7:6 -- The Hebrews lived for 400 years in Egypt.
"Israel (the Hebrews) were not 400 nor 430 years in Egypt, they did not even spend the whole time of their time in Egypt in bondage. When reading about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob it is easily recognized that only Jacob in relatively old age went down to Egypt with his descendants after his son Joseph had risen to a high position at the court of Pharaoh. The time before this, approximately half of the 430 years, the Hebrews lived as sojourners in the land of Canaan. The first part of their time in Egypt they spend there in freedom and under the protection of Pharaoh. Only some time after Joseph's death when a foreign dynasty took over the rule in Egypt the servitude of Israel in Egypt started "
(see How Long did the Hebrews live in Egypt, Wolfgang Schneider)
Last edited by ancient warrior; 01-04-2011 at 09:50 AM..
Reason: "SIZE" removal
"Israel Finkelstein, director of the Institute of Archaeology
at Tel Aviv University, and his colleague Neal Silberman, in their book The Bible Unearthed: "We have no clue, not even a single word, about early Israelites in Egypt: Neither in monumental inscriptions on walls of temples, nor in tomb inscriptions, nor in papyri. "
2.5 million people? 430 years? and no records at all?
The story of the baby in the little ark woven of reeds is a favorite among some scholars who believe Moses was a creation of the ancient Hebrews' binding together their own national epic out of the tales of neighbors. They point out that a birth narrative of Sargon of Akkad, a Mesopotamian King who ruled in the millennium before Moses, reads, "My priestly mother conceived me, in secret she bore me. She set me in a basket of rushes, with bitumen she sealed my lid." Sound familiar
Exodus 12:40 -- The Hebrews lived for 430 years in Egypt. Acts 7:6 -- The Hebrews lived for 400 years in Egypt.
"Israel (the Hebrews) were not 400 nor 430 years in Egypt, they did not even spend the whole time of their time in Egypt in bondage. When reading about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob it is easily recognized that only Jacob in relatively old age went down to Egypt with his descendants after his son Joseph had risen to a high position at the court of Pharaoh. The time before this, approximately half of the 430 years, the Hebrews lived as sojourners in the land of Canaan. The first part of their time in Egypt they spend there in freedom and under the protection of Pharaoh. Only some time after Joseph's death when a foreign dynasty took over the rule in Egypt the servitude of Israel in Egypt started "
(see How Long did the Hebrews live in Egypt, Wolfgang Schneider)
You need to slow down and read more critically.
Exodus 12:40 does not say as you suggest above that the Hebrews lived for 430 years in Egypt. Nor does Acts 7:6 say the Hebrews lived for 400 years in Egypt.
Act 7:6 Yet God speaks thus, that his seed shall be sojourner in an alien
land, and they shall enslave it and illtreat it four hundred years."
In Acts 7:6 Stephen did not say the Israelites were in Egypt 400 years.
Exo 12:40 Now the dwelling of the sons of Israel and their fathers who dwelt in the land of Canaan and in the land of Egypt was four hundred thirty years.
Try to slow down and read more critically.
Adam Clark's Commentary on the Bible states:
"“Thus indeed,” says Dr. Kennicott, “we arrive at the exact sum, and by this method of reckoning we might arrive at any thing but truth, which we may presume was never thus conveyed by an inspired writer.” But can the difficulty be removed without having recourse to such absurd shifts? Certainly it can. The Samaritan Pentateuch, in all its manuscripts and printed copies, reads the place thus: -
“Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, and of their fathers, which they sojourned in the land of Canaan and in the land of Egypt, was 430 years.” This same sum is given by St. Paul, Gal_3:17,
Gal 3:17 "Now this am I saying: a covenant, having been ratified before by God, the law, having come four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not invalidate,"
who reckons from the promise made to Abraham, when God commanded him to go to Canaan, to the giving of the law, which soon followed the departure from Egypt; and this chronology of the apostle is concordant with the Samaritan Pentateuch, which, by preserving the two passages, they and their fathers, and in the land of Canaan, which are lost out of the present copies of the Hebrew text, has rescued this passage from all obscurity and contradiction. It may be necessary to observe that the Alexandrian copy of the Septuagint has the same reading as that in the Samaritan. The Samaritan Pentateuch is allowed by many learned men to exhibit the most correct copy of the five books of Moses; and the Alexandrian copy of the Septuagint must also be allowed to be one of the most authentic as well as most ancient copies of this version which we possess. As to St. Paul, no man will dispute the authenticity of his statement; and thus in the mouth of these three most respectable witnesses the whole account is indubitably established. That these three witnesses have the truth, the chronology itself proves: for from Abraham’s entry into Canaan to the birth of Isaac was 25 years, Gen_12:4; 17:1-21; Isaac was 60 years old at the birth of Jacob, Gen_25:26; and Jacob was 130 at his going down into Egypt, Gen_47:9; which three sums make 215 years. And then Jacob and his children having continued in Egypt 215 years more, the whole sum of 430 years is regularly completed. See Kennicott’s Dissertation on the Hebrew Text."
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