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It is important to note that I am in no way a Halachic decisor. I can simply take what I have read and learned and give a personal opinion -- nothing binding on anyone.
I do realize that. I hope you realize, too, that I respect your opinions -- as both a rabbi and someone whom I consider to be a friend.
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 03-11-2021 at 01:47 PM..
I do realize that. I hope you realize, too, that I respect your opinions -- as both a rabbi and someone whom I consider to be a friend.
Co-signed. While my relationship with Judaism is very different from rosends’, I greatly value and respect his wisdom and insight and always enjoy our online conversations.
I was in a discussion with someone on another forum and he made a claim about Jewish behavior. I asked him where he got the idea from and he said something to the effect of "I thought it was one of the 613 mitzvot." Though I didn't know it at the time, this got me thinking.
Jewish law is confusing, partially because Halacha ("the path") is not identical with "the commandments." It is a combination of the 613 commandments and lots of other stuff, and the complex legal system of ordinances, rules, precedents and statements that continues to accumulate.
Yes, there is a commandment to "honor your father and your mother". But first one has to parse the sentence on a textual level, defining terms and accounting for each letter to see what other aspects it brings up. Then one has to consider HOW one follows it and there might be 50 "rules" one has to follow, plus the questions of legal theory (does one fulfill this obligation unintentionally? Or when actions are done in spite?) Then there might be rabbinic applications and expansions (justified by textual or sociological reasons) and for each understanding, there might be later rabbinical explanations. One ends up with a code of Jewish law which says "don't sit on your father's chair." This is a discrete "law" and part of halacha, but it is an iteration of "respect your father" which is also a law. And it is then subject to the same parsing and investigation as the torah quote is.
So when we talk about Jewish law, we are talking about edicts, enactments, temporary and permanent practices, strong traditions elevated to the level of law, and lots of other stuff that adds to a simple list of mitzvot that can be tied directly to an injunction in a verse.
Today is St. Patrick's Day and I was having a lot of anxiety. I am part Irish and it's a tradition to have a corned beef and cabbage dinner every year. Mom's an Atheist, dad was never Irish, so it's just dinner. We can come together and share dinner in our humanity.
I found this:
Quote:
A member of Shearith Israel posted online that the Jews and Irish had at least some commonality.
On March 10, 1847, Page One of the New York Daily Globe reported that “a large and respectable assembly” had gathered at Manhattan’s Congregation Shearith Israel on Crosby Street to organize an appeal for aid to Ireland. The chief speaker was the popular Hazzan, Jacques Judah Lyons, who noted “no diversity of opinion” on the facts of Irish suffering but “a great diversity of opinion as to what we should do…” Looking towards his critics, his voice boomed to the back of the Sephardic synagogue so he could be sure to be heard by all. “We are told that we have a large number of our own poor and destitute to take care of! That the charity we dispense should be bestowed in this quarter! That justice is a higher virtue than generosity, that self-preservation is a law and principle of our nature!” Nevertheless, he argued, “thanks to the Lord,” there is one “indestructible” and “all-powerful” link between the Irish and the Jews: “that link, my brethren, is humanity.”
After the meeting, according to the Globe, the sum of $175 was donated to the General Standing Committee for the Relief of the Famishing Poor in Ireland.
The kehilla raised over $1000 in total for Ireland ($82,000 in today’s currency).
In 1947, a charitable contribution arrived at Shearith Israel from some Irish citizens of New York who requested that their donation be accepted in gratitude for what the Congregation had done for their forbearers a century earlier.
At first, in the 1920s and 1930s, Irish sympathies lay squarely with the Zionists and drew heavily on the presumed parallels between historic Irish and Jewish suffering, as well as the shared traumatic experience of large-scale migration in the 19th century.
Drawing a parallel with their own history of occupation, the Irish also championed the Zionist struggle for self-determination against the British. A correspondent to The Bell, a leading Irish magazine, raged over current events in Mandate Palestine in March 1945: “Never let it be forgotten that the Irish people … have experienced all that the Jewish people in Palestine are suffering from the trained ‘thugs’ ‘gunning tarzans’ and British ‘terrorists’ that the Mandatory power have imposed upon the country.”
Humanity is the tie that binds all people, and it is a shame that we often forget that.
Today is St. Patrick's Day and I was having a lot of anxiety. I am part Irish and it's a tradition to have a corned beef and cabbage dinner every year. Mom's an Atheist, dad was never Irish, so it's just dinner. We can come together and share dinner in our humanity.
It’s also worth nothing that while not a distinctly Jewish invention, eating corned beef on St. Patrick’s Day (and in general) is a practice the Irish picked up from their immigrant Jewish neighbors in places like New York’s Lower East Side. Irish is also a nationality in addition to an ethnicity, and a surprising number of notable people in Irish society (including a Lord Mayor of Dublin) were Jews. Though never large in number, Jews in Ireland have fared pretty well there throughout history.
So that’s my roundabout way of saying that you can celebrate St. Patrick’s Day with a clear conscience.
It’s also worth nothing that while not a distinctly Jewish invention, eating corned beef on St. Patrick’s Day (and in general) is a practice the Irish picked up from their immigrant Jewish neighbors in places like New York’s Lower East Side. Irish is also a nationality in addition to an ethnicity, and a surprising number of notable people in Irish society (including a Lord Mayor of Dublin) were Jews. Though never large in number, Jews in Ireland have fared pretty well there throughout history.
I was surprised to read about that! One of my former co-workers bought a Mezuzah in Ireland and it was Kosher. He also bought a Tartan prayer shawl. I thought that sounded neat.
Not to change subjects, I was also surprised to read about the Jews in Italy. Same thing - small in number, but they have fared pretty well too.
Mom did say to me the other day as I was planning my Passover menu, "don't forget, we're having corned beef on the 17th. You might want to rethink brisket or plan it for later on in the week."
I'm finding that among my groups, many celebrate St. Patrick's Day and some even partake in Christmas, but they keep it secular. They celebrate it like we've always had in my family - no religious connotation at all. It's quite funny to see, but I'm glad to see it nonetheless. Clear conscience.
Chaim Herzog was born on Cliftonpark Avenue in Belfast the son of Rabbi Yitzhak HaLevi Herzog, who was Chief Rabbi of Ireland from 1919 to 1937 (and later of Mandatory Palestine and the State of Israel), and his wife Sarah (née Hillman).[2][3] His father was born in Łomża, Poland, and his mother in Latvia; his maternal grandfather was the Orthodox Jewish Talmudic scholar Shmuel Yitzchak Hillman. The family home from 1919 was at 33 Bloomfield Avenue, Portobello, Dublin.
I was surprised to read about that! One of my former co-workers bought a Mezuzah in Ireland and it was Kosher. He also bought a Tartan prayer shawl. I thought that sounded neat.
Not to change subjects, I was also surprised to read about the Jews in Italy. Same thing - small in number, but they have fared pretty well too.
Mom did say to me the other day as I was planning my Passover menu, "don't forget, we're having corned beef on the 17th. You might want to rethink brisket or plan it for later on in the week."
I'm finding that among my groups, many celebrate St. Patrick's Day and some even partake in Christmas, but they keep it secular. They celebrate it like we've always had in my family - no religious connotation at all. It's quite funny to see, but I'm glad to see it nonetheless. Clear conscience.
Salmon is also a good choice for Pesach, if you’re up for a dairy dinner. That’s what we usually have. Roast chicken with matzo stuffing is a good option if you still want meat (I’d recommend matzo farfel but don’t know if you could find a GF version).
There are Jews from in-married families who celebrate Christmas, so I think you’re fine to partake with family and friends. And if Christmas still has meaning for you on a secular and cultural level, I think that’s quite all right, too.
In Italy the record is a bit more mixed, probably because the community, while fairly small in absolute numbers was and is still much larger than Ireland’s Jewish community ever was and stretches back quite far in history (being one of the earlier diaspora destinations). Mussolini, while not personally inclined toward anti-Semitism, was more than willing to deport Italy’s Jews to the camps to keep Hitler happy (which almost makes it worse). On the other hand, Italy’s Jewish community suffered far smaller losses than the great majority of Axis/Occupied Europe.
Ireland’s Jewish community was mostly a product of late 19th/early 20th century immigration, like other parts of the British Isles. My maternal grandfather’s parents were born in Liverpool and Manchester en route from Eastern Europe.
Salmon is also a good choice for Pesach, if you’re up for a dairy dinner. That’s what we usually have. Roast chicken with matzo stuffing is a good option if you still want meat (I’d recommend matzo farfel but don’t know if you could find a GF version).
There are Jews from in-married families who celebrate Christmas, so I think you’re fine to partake with family and friends. And if Christmas still has meaning for you on a secular and cultural level, I think that’s quite all right, too.
In Italy the record is a bit more mixed, probably because the community, while fairly small in absolute numbers was and is still much larger than Ireland’s Jewish community ever was and stretches back quite far in history (being one of the earlier diaspora destinations). Mussolini, while not personally inclined toward anti-Semitism, was more than willing to deport Italy’s Jews to the camps to keep Hitler happy (which almost makes it worse). On the other hand, Italy’s Jewish community suffered far smaller losses than the great majority of Axis/Occupied Europe.
Ireland’s Jewish community was mostly a product of late 19th/early 20th century immigration, like other parts of the British Isles. My maternal grandfather’s parents were born in Liverpool and Manchester en route from Eastern Europe.
That makes sense. Yeah, most of my groups and friends have told me and I know my new congregation would say, "they're your family, go be with them!" Christmas has horrible meaning to me, so I don't really celebrate per se, but I like being with family. (I also love, LOVE The Grinch and Charlie Brown.) That's why sometimes I hope mom will change her mind about Seders or dinners because while they're not Jewish, they're family and it would be nice.
I would like to see my cousins in Ireland; I might have to map out a Synagogue in Ireland and go. It could be quite the adventure. I believe they are in County Mayo, so I would have to see the distance. That is so nice to know!
I love salmon and have it every week. Would you mind sending me a recipe, please? I do have GF matzah and could make stuffing from that. Last year I found a GF matzah ball soup recipe; it didn't use matzah, it used potato and potato starch. It was a bit too heavy.
Boo, Mussolini. Now I can see why Nan always said, "That darn dumb Mussolini," then cursed Hitler and said, "never again." It's good to know that while Mussolini was inclined to throw people under the proverbial bus, that Italy's Jewish community suffered a smaller loss.
Eh, Italy has a mixed record on treatment of Jews. I was watching Stanley Tucci's show on Italian cuisine and was surprised to learn about the Jewish influence on Tuscan cuisine. Apparently, there are still Jews living in Tuscany. The Italians in Europe are still quite antisemitic.
Jess, I thought of you when I saw jars of GF gefilte fish for sale in the store this week.
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