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Oh boy. First, the Pharisees wouldn't have said they want the blood of Jesus upon their children. This is not a Jewish concept that the sins of the fathers befall their children. As a matter of fact this line of thinking is strictly forbidden.
Second, it was the Romans who cruxified Jesus and he wasn't the only one. Seeing as Jews in that time lived under Roman military dictatorship whatever they wanted, happened.
Even if the NT states that some had been cut off because of unbelief in God, it certainly doesn't mean that all, or even many were. There are always some unbelievers. In fact, being grafted in suggests being added on, not supplanting.
Jews don't believe that Jesus was the messiah because he didn't fulfill the prophesy of bringing peace to the condition of the Jewish people and the world. There were many who also claimed this over many years. When it is said that Israel didn't obtain what it seeks, it's referring to peace and freedom from occupation.
Jews discourage conversion by others because the responsibility placed on them is difficult. Nor will conversion of them be sucessful. When God comes to a people directly and gives them laws for eternity it is impossible that they would then use an intermediary when they previously didn't need one. Some Jews do take this route, but in general it is a futile and unnecessary endeavor.
In a way, I always saw Catholocism as an extension, and fulfillment of Judaism. Both have structure and laws and rituals, since Catholocism has it's roots in Judaism.
Judaism had the Covenant....Catholocism has the New Covenant
Judaism made sacrifices for God...Catholocism has the sacrifice of the Mass
Judaism had Manna from Heaven...Catholics have Jesus in the Eucharist
Judaism had a tabernacle...Catholics have a tabernacle for the body of Christ
Judaism had priests....Catholics have priests
Judaism has a teaching body (heirarchy)....Catholics have a heirarchy
This is an interesting discussion about the Jews. Let me ask a couple of questions. I realize that the Jewish people are considered to be an ethnic group with their own culture but are there individuals from completely different cultures who become Jews and is this accepted? Also, because the Jewish faith seems to be so deeply rooted in family and tradition do you think there's an even stronger feeling among deeply religious Jewish parents that they want their children to carry on the faith and traditions?
Yes, to that last sentence. Loss of tradition is a big fear because without it, with or without religious belief, there is always the hope for same. Not all Jews are religious but all are culturally Jews. There are individuals from other backgrounds who become converts and it is instructed they must not be discriminated against.
One of the biggest differences, other than the obvious, between Catholics and Jews is that Jews do not have a hierarchy. In that way they are closer to Protestant sects. There is not a person as in the pope who more directly is closer to God or delivers rulings about religious beliefs/practice. Rabbis are merely more educated Jews who act as counselors and teachers. They do not hold the power to erase a person's sins as do priests nor do they act as confessors. There is no intermediary in Judiasm in any form. Every person is their own rabbi so to speak. Any Jew who knows how may lead a religious service.
Sins against God are to be asked for forgiveness directly from God, and sins against a person are instructed to be asked for from that person. Each Jew is instructed to learn as an individual, to practice as to their own understanding, and to live in a way that fulfills these beliefs while at the same time being part of, and responsible for, the larger spiritual body and the greater world of humanity. It is not unusual at all to see persons at a religious service with varying degrees of observances: some may not wear head coverings, others may wear prayer shawls, some do not keep dietary laws, even rabbis disagree as to minor particulars.
I just reread the title of this thread and thought I'd respond directly to the question of heaven and hell. These concepts are not really important to or in line with Jewish thinking, as they are a foundation of Christianity.
Breaking a commandment has a much more immediate affect in Jewish thought. Stealing for instance, causes a sort of hell, for the person it was perpetrated upon and well as the person doing it. The same with charity or being a good neighbor which is a blessing and brings us closer to the condition of heaven.
Jews do not hold that your sins are unconditionally forgiven in perpetuity by reason of your belief. It is your actions that count. They are not done for any future reward or punishment. They are done because they were commanded.
Oh boy. First, the Pharisees wouldn't have said they want the blood of Jesus upon their children. This is not a Jewish concept that the sins of the fathers befall their children. As a matter of fact this line of thinking is strictly forbidden.
Second, it was the Romans who cruxified Jesus and he wasn't the only one. Seeing as Jews in that time lived under Roman military dictatorship whatever they wanted, happened.
It was the High Priest that were the ones that plotted to kill Jesus. It was the High Priest (and the people) who demanded it be done even though Pilot washed his hands of the whole thing.
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Even if the NT states that some had been cut off because of unbelief in God, it certainly doesn't mean that all, or even many were. There are always some unbelievers. In fact, being grafted in suggests being added on, not supplanting.
If you go back and read the post before the one you are quoting, you will see that the NT believes that " NO ONE WILL COME TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME".. which clearly states that if you do not believe on the Son, you deny the Father and will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
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Jews don't believe that Jesus was the messiah because he didn't fulfill the prophesy of bringing peace to the condition of the Jewish people and the world. There were many who also claimed this over many years. When it is said that Israel didn't obtain what it seeks, it's referring to peace and freedom from occupation.
Ac 10:36 -"The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)--
Jesus came not to bring peace thru freedom of occupation, but peace within & eternal peace. Where in the Torah does it discribe freedom from occupation?
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Jews discourage conversion by others because the responsibility placed on them is difficult. Nor will conversion of them be sucessful. When God comes to a people directly and gives them laws for eternity it is impossible that they would then use an intermediary when they previously didn't need one. Some Jews do take this route, but in general it is a futile and unnecessary endeavor.
ibcwife, I am wondering which church you belong to that has educated you so well on this subject. I ask because the only time I have heard this reasoning was in 1963 in Charlotte, NC --- in a small Baptist church. I credit those days as a summer student to my disinclination to follow the bible. I also credit that church with teaching and promulgating anti-semitism.
I just reread the title of this thread and thought I'd respond directly to the question of heaven and hell. These concepts are not really important to or in line with Jewish thinking, as they are a foundation of Christianity.
Sgoldie....trying to get more information, here.....if Jews don't believe in heaven or hell....what do they believe happens after one dies? Do Jews believe in an eternal after-life or not? If so, do souls go to a "limbo" type place or soemwhere else? I'm really intersted, since I dont' know.
Beliefs vary somewhat by individual and sect. Some believe in heaven and hell and some don't, though the twist on them is slightly different than in Christianity.
Here is a relatively easy to read website that contains a boatload of information. It has internal links to explain everything you might want to know about Jewish beliefs. There is also a search function.
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