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It's one thing to accommodate recent arrivals who are struggling to figure out basic stuff like "Stop", "Go", "Men's", "Women's" etc. When you're in Arrivals of an international airport, it makes sense and it's completely understandable to have signs in five or six languages.
But when most signs around the city are bilingual, it makes it harder for everyone to read. Take a drive through Canada to experience firsthand the stupidity of forced bilingual signage. Even when the words are virtually identical, or close enough that anyone can figure it out, they still do it. "Tourist Information Center" is "Centre d'information touristique" in French. How hard is that?
Then there's the phone answering systems that start you out with "For English, press One. Para espanol, oprima el dos." How many millions of hours a year do Americans waste answering this prompt?
I believe immigrants to the U.S. should learn English and not be given a free ride with bilingual signage and written materials. Private companies can of course do what they want, but government signs and publications should all be in English.
I know from personal experience that when you're living in a foreign country (I spent two years in Taiwan), the fewer language aids the better; it forces you to learn.
Of course we're rapidly approaching a time when our phones will translate almost anything for us. Who knows, maybe we won't even have official languages eventually. Everyone will just speak whatever language they prefer, and our electronics will translate for us.
Once English becomes the official language then maybe a person can help immigrants in abiding. As it is now...no official language means ...you are free to speak as you were taught.
I'm all for immigrants coming to our country and having a better life but BOTH immigrants legal or illegal should be REQUIRED to take english classes(their plenty of people who can volunteer). This is getting out of hand, i can't even communicate with them and they expect me to what speak spanish?or what ever language?
This is america it's a majority english speaking country if i went to japan i would learn japanese.
You obviously haven't spent any time in Miami.
70% of the population's first language is not English.
In Hialeah, a city of about 250,000 no one speaks English. Not city government offices, not the mayor, no one. It is the largest Spanish city outside of a Spanish country.
I have mixed feelings about it.
If the founding fathers felt it was THAT important for English to be spoken, they would have made it the country's official language. And even now, there is no push by the government to declare English as the official language.
Lots of Americans live abroad, and many of them DON'T speak the languages of the countries in which they live. I know an American who has lived in Thailand for years and still doesn't speak a word of that language.
One thing you all have to keep in mind is that English is not a phonetic language, and therefore it's NOT easy to learn. There's no way to really know how to pronounce certain words unless you are already familiar with those words. Do you think an immigrant who's just barely learning English is gonna know that the word "sugar" is pronounced "shugar"? And that's just one of countless examples.
On the other hand, being in an environment where you hardly hear anybody speaking English is quite offputting. I speak Spanish but even I feel out of my element when I'm in a predominantly Spanish-speaking area. I even stopped shopping at a local ethnic supermarket because all you would hear in there was Spanish, Spanish, Spanish.
There's nothing wrong with people speaking their own language. For reasons of safety yeah, English would be helpful and there should be ESL classes for those who want them, but no one should be forced to speak English. It's not our official language. It would be better if we made our country more bilingual since so many areas are Spanish speaking like FL, NY and TX. Also we need to really learn how to speak and write English ourselves before judging anyone else's ability. I see stuff like "suppose to" and "use to" and "would of/could of" and it's deplorable.
I know that often if one family member learns English (like the man so he can work) and the kids will eventually (because they go to school), there are often other family members who don't and never will - and they are somewhat handicapped because they are stuck relying on the English speaking members of their family in order to do a lot out in the community if it is mainly English speaking. That may be understandable if those family members are all elderly but it is not so good if it happens to be, as it often is, the mother. I don't think that is good for them any more than it is for us.
And then there is the fact that when it comes to government agencies, schools, hospitals and courts, etc., we are now having to 'translate' into or out of close to 100 languages I have heard - the costs are staggering for everyone - and we still can't really 'communicate'. It has gone beyond reasonable and manageable.
Not everyone who comes to the States just speaks generic Spanish either for instance. The other day I read a story about someone from somewhere in Latin America I think who only speaks some rare dialect and he claimed that the translator given him was not good enough for him to completely understand the nuances of whatever system (probably court) that he was trying to navigate. He demanded that the government supply him with someone who spoke his language the way he spoke it .. but we don't always have those experts on hand and if we did, they are likely to cost more than the average translator too because there is so little business for them.
I believe the government needs to ask the American people (after giving them complete and accurate information about the costs to society - different types of costs, not all financial) if they want to finally declare one or two OFFICIAL languages and ask immigrants to change rather than us having to cater to EVERYONE in the language of THEIR choosing forever. We will supply them with help to do so but there should be a time limit and definite requirement for them to get to an acceptable level of fluency in at least one of the 'official languages'. Catering to the immigrant this much is beyond sanity right now. With the language barriers people don't even attempt to assimilate - they congregate in tiny groups and keep their own countries alive within the boundaries of another country. They may 'contribute' to some extent but not as much as they are 'taking' from the country as a whole. There is certainly no problem with retaining some of their own culture (that enriches us all and they are free to speak whatever language they desire outside of the mainstream areas) but they will never 'feel American' if they cannot speak the common language to create common bonds as well, and we may grow to really resent them over time if we cannot communicate with them either, which I think is too bad.
I agree .. if I go to another country where their language and customs are different, I respect those things and do my best to 'fit in' rather than demand they make my world the same as where I came from. We need to have 'some pride' and 'some identity' or we are lost as a country and can no longer maintain 'sovereignty' in my opinion.
I agree with your post except for the bolded parts.
There should be one official language and that language needs to be English.
You see, the flaw in your argument is for example, Spanish is declared the other "official language". We already have Hispanic illegal aliens who can't even read or write in their native language. If Spanish is declared to be the other "official language", they will never bother to learn English.
And what about people who speak, for example, Arabic or Swahili? Should they be required to learn 2 "official languages"? The answer to that is "no".
For centuries, English has been the language that has bonded us all. My grandparents came here from Europe in 1921. One of the first things they did was enroll in night school to learn English. They kept taking classes until they were fluent. Eventually, they moved into a neighborhood that had immigrants who were from different countries. In order for them to know their neighbors, they all needed to have a common language---and that was English. As a result, my grandparents were able to make lifelong friends, with their best friends being a family from Armenia and the other one was from Italy. All these families made sure that when their kids started school, they went already fluently speaking English. That was because not only did their parents teach them their native languages but they also spoke to their kids in English.
Normally I don't like grammar police--->but since you are complaining about Immigrants learning English, you might want to brush up on your English grammar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retriever
+100!
I'm sure that the OP is not aware of how badly-compromised his/her English proficiency actually is, but before he/she dares to question the linguistic skills of immigrants, he/she would be well-advised to pursue a course in Adult Literacy. Trust me, OP, you have a LOT to learn about the proper use of your native language.
The irony of the OP's post is nothing short of...amazing.
OP, this really is quite an embarrassing and ironic thread.
But perhaps the good people of CD can help!
How many years have you been in America? Did you receive a full education in your home country? Were you taught English in school?
When you are speaking to people face-to-face, do they ever seem to have difficulty understanding you? Or do you notice you struggle more with the English language in its written form?
i'm not being sarcastic with my post, as i am agreeing to the OP's concerns. i'm an immigrant myself, but i'm of principle that immigrants should be the ones to adjust to the host nation, not the other way around.
to all other immigrants replying here, why are you criticizing the native speaker for poor grammar/punctuation? that's their native language. we immigrants might write/punctuate/spell english better than the native speakers (yes, the irony of it), but please, why criticize? it should be us immigrants adjusting to them, not them to us, regardless of how imperfect the natives' grasp of the english grammar/punctuation may be.
with the US getting increasingly politically correct and enforcing diversity instead of compliance to US laws, customs and traditions, more immigrants--particularly those from south/central america who tend to come in illegally because of the border proximity--will be coming in and not having the urgency to assimilate or learn the language or both. the natives will eventually have to learn all countries' languages and adapt technologies to accommodate more foreign languages lest someone cries "discrimination."
i do have to say that immigrants who come in legally, particularly those on work visas, tend to be more literate with the english language due to the requirements with getting the US licensure/certification/education and/or the visa itself. it's only common sense since we have to deal with natives in our work environment on a daily basis, even more so compared to immigrants who come in on family/marriage visas.
There's nothing wrong with people speaking their own language. For reasons of safety yeah, English would be helpful and there should be ESL classes for those who want them, but no one should be forced to speak English. It's not our official language. It would be better if we made our country more bilingual since so many areas are Spanish speaking like FL, NY and TX. Also we need to really learn how to speak and write English ourselves before judging anyone else's ability. I see stuff like "suppose to" and "use to" and "would of/could of" and it's deplorable.
oh only bilingual because majority of the immigrants speak spanish? surely you jest. someone from india/china/afghanistan/pakistan/indonesia/russia will scream "segregation" or "discrimination" because the natives are forced to only learn one other language, and that's spanish.
so no one should be forced to speak english but everyone else has to learn spanish? surely you jest!
1) Why are you trying to communicate with Immigrants who dont know how to speak in English? Actually it is their problem that they are unable to understand you in a Foreign country.
2) Many Americans will have problems in understanding Foreign accent even if the are speaking in English. This is Belfast Accent. I dont think that americans will understand each and every word if somebody speaks like this even as they are speaking in English.
3) If immigrants are speaking within themselves in a Foreign language, what is the problem? An American Family visiting Paris will speak amongst themselves in English only.
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