Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Since things are so quiet...thought I'd ask you, which LV forumers go to Center City Allentown? Or has it gotten so that nobody has any reason to venture there? I'm sure there are some symphony buffs, who enjoy an evening out!
Damascus is a very good reason to venture downtown.
La Placita Mexico Deli 158 North 12th Street Allentown, PA 18102 (610) 821-4549 gets good recommendations.
I know the Civic Theatre is on 19th street, which is Center City by many definitions.
Center City is not a war zone. While Allentown's violent crime rate is the highest for the Lehigh Valley, it is lower than Harrisburg, Norristown, Philadelphia, York, Pottstown, Reading, Lancaster, and Pittsburgh. The complete avoidance of any business in center city by all suburbanites is not going to help matters much.
I agree with the OP, this is a relatively quiet forum. I also agree with TooBusy, the people here are very nice. I generally hang out in 4 forums based on places I've lived - here, NJ, NEPA and Phoenix. The LV forum is the quietest of those 4. I frequently recommend the Lehigh Valley to people who ask if they should move to NEPA in yhat forum.
I'm probably going to get slammed by my NEPA forum peeps for saying this, but there is a different type of feeling in the Lehigh Valley compared to NEPA. There seems to be a lot of anger and despair coming out on the NEPA forum, whereas on here we discuss the facts in a civil way. On the NEPA forum, people who have had problems in the area paint the region as a bunch of idiots, whereas people who like the way the area was before blame its problems on newcomers from NY and NJ. And if you like the area as it is, forget it-- you obviously have drunk the Kool-Aid and/or have a cushy government job! I think in the past the LV forum has had some posters that got out of hand, but people did not feed the trolls. On the NEPA forum (and I've been guilty of this too, as TBT can attest) people tend to fly off the handle when they disagree.
I also have noticed a different attitude in the LV overall when compared to NEPA. Bear in mind that my family lives in NEPA, the majority of my closest friends live there, and they are all doing well in the area. However, there is an attitude there that people are just trying to survive day to day. In the LV I notice people trying to make changes, trying to flourish, trying to buck trends. A lot of this, of course, has to do with politics and the ongoing corruption in NEPA. I've noticed people in the Lehigh Valley are extremely on top of politics and, while certain issues occur from time to time, the level of corruption that happens in NEPA could never fly in LV. I never saw the level of involvement when reporting in NEPA that I've seen at public meetings in the Lehigh Valley. That's not to say that people in NEPA are stupid, or that they don't care about their communities. Unfortunately I think a lot of them are just unsure of what to do next, because nothing they try works. The LV also has some active economic development organizations, which NEPA is sorely lacking--that might have something to do with it.
There's also another reason why the LV forum probably doesn't see as many posts as NEPA. Lehigh Valley businesses, media, and other organizations have a very active social media presence. I don't mean to offend the C-D gods, but City-Data isn't exactly cutting edge when it comes to new media. It's a message board, and they've been around for more than a decade. Most of the people who post on C-D, especially on the city sub-forums, probably don't possess or may even eschew social media sites. Meanwhile, there's a ton of information to be gleaned from social media, and a lot of people in the Lehigh Valley utilize that resource. I have a feeling that's a big reason why there are fewer posters here in the LV forum than in the NEPA forum. The younger demographic in the region, coupled with the desire to use newer and more convenient technology, makes a forum like City-Data seem clunky in comparison.
However, there is an attitude there that people are just trying to survive day to day. In the LV I notice people trying to make changes, trying to flourish, trying to buck trends. A lot of this, of course, has to do with politics and the ongoing corruption in NEPA. I've noticed people in the Lehigh Valley are extremely on top of politics and, while certain issues occur from time to time, the level of corruption that happens in NEPA could never fly in LV.
LV also has some active economic development organizations, which NEPA is sorely lacking--that might have something to do with it.
While your description comparing the areas does not directly address population growth, it always seems to me that people use the word flourishing associated with population growth. Do you think there is a set of conditions where a region with no population growth can be described as "flourishing"?
From 2000 to 2010
Five counties in NEPA collectively lost 1,232 people
-3.3% Lycoming
-2.0% Sullivan
+0.5% Lackawanna
+0.5% Luzerne
+0.7% Wyoming
Two counties within NYC commuting distance collectively gained 42,263 people
22.5% Monroe
23.9% Pike
Three counties in Lehigh Valley collectively gained 74,623 people
11.0% Carbon
11.5% Northampton
12.0% Lehigh
In the minds of some people, if an area is flourishing, then it is attractive to migrants. So population growth and economic success naturally go hand in hand. But as population growth slows around the world, there will be more and more regions with little to no population growth.
While Monroe and Pike county are basically the fastest growing region of PA (by percentage growth, not by absolute numbers), some people describe them as "too much growth".
In terms of "absolute numbers", the five county area is responsible for 60% of net PA growth. I think most people consider this regions as "flourishing".
Montgomery , Berks , Lancaster , York , & Chester
But people also decry the senseless loss of farmland.
Pa Dutch, I think it may be a combination of all that you mentioned.
I personally didn't find this website very helpful when asking questions.
I do find Lehigh Valley residents are kinder, more tactful, and yes I'll say it, they seem more educated than Luzerne County. In the NEPA forum, you can't even ask a simple question with out being judged(asking for doctor's referral), or someone responding with some juvenile argument bating. They can quickly bring out the worst in anyone. There's only so much patience a person can have. Many people are saying the same thing, especially liberal, progressive, even independent users.
My impression of the Lehigh Valley for any progressive, liberal, and political moderates who may read this:
The Lehigh Valley seems to be more tolerant and far less xenophobic/racist than what I have experienced up in NEPA. The very 1st person I met in NEPA who can actually hold an intelligent conversation without being acerbic and bigoted, was a professional, and BEHAVED professional, from Lehigh Valley. She is a wonderful person, who recommended Lehigh Valley if I wanted to stay in Pa. I first heard of Lehigh Valley in detail from her, but was apprehensive of considering it because she was way too nice for her own good(she found out fast this area wasn't worth it and left), and I assumed it would be as bad as the rest of Penntucky, errrm Pennsylvania. I realized it wasn't right to judge Lehigh Valley by the awful experiences in NEPA my friends & I had.
I learned if you really want to know about a place, do it the old fashion way if possible. Actually visiting a place, reading comments/ editorials on local newspaper & their websites, reading reviews/ratings of doctors & schools, and speaking to REAL residents, who are LIKE-MINDED(rarely will an extreme-right person have the same perception as a progressive or liberal, and vice-versa), is the best way to get to know a place. We are relying too heavily on these forums, and the internet period. I realized the hard way, this is a major hindrance to finding accurate information when I moved here, and found it to be anything but friendly, with the worst doctors & schools! All contrary to locals boasted. I'm not one to repeat mistakes, so I used simple 5th grade research paper skills, finding out far more about Lehigh Valley than any forum can ever give.
I found that Allentown is NOT as bad as some make it seem. I'm from the NYC Metro, and have family in NYC. If 8 million people from very many backgrounds don't scare me, a couple questionable characters in Allentown sure don't. I actually worry more for my kids' safety in NEPA, were people love to run you over & flee, meth-labs are popping up allover, cops do nothing, and judges let pedophiles go with a slap on the wrist.
I went to the Lehigh Valley, and spoke to the locals who were for the most part very friendly, or they would simply leave you alone, sans the vitriol & malevolent stares of Luzerne County folk, who won't smile back or return greetings. I'm sure you have your kooks but most people were decent, even in nasty holiday traffic/shopping. Up here the holidays are NOT jolly(old ladies are cool, younger folks NOT), and many people are downright mean, and miserable, even to other locals. Lehigh Valley gets the points for good manners & being decent to strangers.
Aside from my friend who left this area, one of my kid's teachers lives in Lehigh Valley. She gave me a ton of information on neighborhoods, even though she suggested her development first,lol. She lives in the suburbs, but loves visiting Allentown, Easton, and Bethlehem. For a small town country girl, she is pretty insightful on the area, and isn't unjustly biased against urban areas. Her & her husband love all the festivals in Allentown & surrounding area, the parks, and the farmer's market, especially. They are moderate conservatives, and just respectful, and overall lovely folks.
My girlfriend's sister who is a Latina professional from NJ, loved living in Whitehall before her job relocated her again. She had nothing but good things to say about the area. Yes, mentioning she's Latina matters, especially to readers who are worried about being discriminated against for being minorities. I rarely see them getting good responses or information, so I speak for their sakes. I also know an African American couple who have been living there for years, but forgot about them until recently. They too are from NJ, loved the area(some Lehigh suburb I forget), and schools. We also met some Indian professionals who work closely with the schools, and some foreign born doctors. All had nice things to say about Lehigh Valley. Many were originally from NYC Metro, and said it reminds them of a much smaller, slightly less modern/advanced, and less congested NYC Metro. Nobody really found it difficult to live in, but keep in mind these are all families with kids. All the childless people I know live in the NYC Metro. Due to this, I have no information on nightlife couples/singles living.
Do I think the area is without trouble? No, I don't, but compared to Wyoming Valley, it is a utopia, especially in regards to health care & education, (yes, schools & doctors here ARE that bad), and tolerance(xenophobia/racism is extreme here). Professionals in Lehigh Valley are also more likely to get jobs on merit, as opposed to cronyism/nepotism in NEPA/Luzerne County. Honestly, I even know of soldiers being turned down for jobs by their superior/hiring officers, who give jobs to less/unqualified friends/family. Its THAT bad in NEPA.
Again, I only write this so that a person who possesses liberal, progressive, or even moderate conservative views reads this, and can get an idea of Lehigh Valley from their perspective. That, and I honestly don't have time to start my own blog, but plan on it.
I myself live very conservatively, and don't fit into any cookie cutter definition of political affiliation, although some in the NEPA forum may find me a bleeding heart liberal, whatever that is. However, I don't believe I have any right to force my ways on others, just like I will NEVER tolerate others forcing their ways on me. Lehigh Valley seems to be the balance of such extremes, from what I witnessed, and from what others from different backgrounds & political affiliations told me(yup Lehigh Valley has NICE republicans). In NEPA people are homogenized in every sense of the word, including politically, so the label democrat, is just that, a label.
That's my perception of Lehigh Valley, shared by many people who simply want to PEACEFULLY CO-EXIST!
Will I move there? Not sure, but very likely not. I love the NYC Metro too much, and cry every time I have to come back to our house in NEPA, house, NOT home. If I do go back to the NYC Metro, Lehigh Valley is the ONLY place, aside from the outlets & the Philly area, that I'd visit in Pa.
Hope this helps any progressives/liberals, and moderates thinking of moving to Pa. Take care!
While your description comparing the areas does not directly address population growth, it always seems to me that people use the word flourishing associated with population growth. Do you think there is a set of conditions where a region with no population growth can be described as "flourishing"?
From 2000 to 2010
Five counties in NEPA collectively lost 1,232 people
-3.3% Lycoming
-2.0% Sullivan
+0.5% Lackawanna
+0.5% Luzerne
+0.7% Wyoming
Two counties within NYC commuting distance collectively gained 42,263 people
22.5% Monroe
23.9% Pike
Three counties in Lehigh Valley collectively gained 74,623 people
11.0% Carbon
11.5% Northampton
12.0% Lehigh
In the minds of some people, if an area is flourishing, then it is attractive to migrants. So population growth and economic success naturally go hand in hand. But as population growth slows around the world, there will be more and more regions with little to no population growth.
While Monroe and Pike county are basically the fastest growing region of PA (by percentage growth, not by absolute numbers), some people describe them as "too much growth".
In terms of "absolute numbers", the five county area is responsible for 60% of net PA growth. I think most people consider this regions as "flourishing".
Montgomery , Berks , Lancaster , York , & Chester
But people also decry the senseless loss of farmland.
I don't just mean in terms of population growth, but also in terms of progressive projects to better the region. I've worked closely with the GLVCC before, and they actively promote economic development in the region. In contrast, the Greater Scranton CC and Greater WB CC don't seem to do too much in that respect. Oh, they'll be there for ribbon cutting and shovel ceremonies, but they don't actively reach out to businesses or try to address local, state, or federal policies.
Also, when we are talking about population (and I don't just deal with raw numbers, but also people I've interviewed and what I've observed as well) I think there's a greater influx of professionals migrating to the Lehigh Valley, which goes hand in hand with my first statement because better economic development usually means better job prospects.
I don't just mean in terms of population growth, but also in terms of progressive projects to better the region. I've worked closely with the GLVCC before, and they actively promote economic development in the region. In contrast, the Greater Scranton CC and Greater WB CC don't seem to do too much in that respect. Oh, they'll be there for ribbon cutting and shovel ceremonies, but they don't actively reach out to businesses or try to address local, state, or federal policies.
Also, when we are talking about population (and I don't just deal with raw numbers, but also people I've interviewed and what I've observed as well) I think there's a greater influx of professionals migrating to the Lehigh Valley, which goes hand in hand with my first statement because better economic development usually means better job prospects.
There's a reason why in a business poll released a couple of weeks ago listed the Lehigh Valley
number 7 out of 10 in terms of the top ten best pro business climates in the country.
Also, when we are talking about population (and I don't just deal with raw numbers)
I think intellectually we believe that "flourishing" is about more than just raw population numbers, but some authors disagree.
Consider the great powers of the early 20th century who populations have peaked
Hungary peaked in 1981
Ukraine peaked in 1993 Russia peaked in 1995 Germany peaked in 2003 Japan peaked in 2008
Russia was so alarmed at the number of people they lost in the first dozen years that they instituted all kinds of new incentives so that people would have babies. The population decay has leveled off in the last 5-6 years so that is back to stable.
Hungary was the first country in the world to "voluntarily" stop growing. Before that in history , populations only went down because of famine, violent wars, or some other calamity. Hungary's population was the first to stop growing primarily because of contraceptives and abortion.
In general people have babies when they feel positive about the future. Also immigration is towards areas with bright prospects.
Despite our intellect, I think we are conditioned to be skeptical of a place with no population growth
I don't just mean in terms of population growth, but also in terms of progressive projects to better the region. I've worked closely with the GLVCC before, and they actively promote economic development in the region. In contrast, the Greater Scranton CC and Greater WB CC don't seem to do too much in that respect. Oh, they'll be there for ribbon cutting and shovel ceremonies, but they don't actively reach out to businesses or try to address local, state, or federal policies.
Also, when we are talking about population (and I don't just deal with raw numbers, but also people I've interviewed and what I've observed as well) I think there's a greater influx of professionals migrating to the Lehigh Valley, which goes hand in hand with my first statement because better economic development usually means better job prospects.
Agree. I think the growth of the 2 hospitals have drawn in a bunch of professionals.
I think intellectually we believe that "flourishing" is about more than just raw population numbers, but some authors disagree.
Consider the great powers of the early 20th century who populations have peaked
Hungary peaked in 1981
Ukraine peaked in 1993 Russia peaked in 1995 Germany peaked in 2003 Japan peaked in 2008
Russia was so alarmed at the number of people they lost in the first dozen years that they instituted all kinds of new incentives so that people would have babies. The population decay has leveled off in the last 5-6 years so that is back to stable.
Hungary was the first country in the world to "voluntarily" stop growing. Before that in history , populations only went down because of famine, violent wars, or some other calamity. Hungary's population was the first to stop growing primarily because of contraceptives and abortion.
In general people have babies when they feel positive about the future. Also immigration is towards areas with bright prospects.
Despite our intellect, I think we are conditioned to be skeptical of a place with no population growth
I think that skepticism comes with good reason though. To steal a phrase from a C-D regular, SteelCityRising, it's a chicken or egg thing. The NEPA region loses population for a number of reasons, one of which is brain drain, i.e. once students graduate from the area universities they look elsewhere for work. Thus, the population dwindles. Also, NEPA is second only to Dade County, FL, in numbers per capita of elderly residents and has been for at least a decade. As those elderly citizens die off, there aren't younger people to replace them; hence a loss in population. People look at that loss of population and think "gee, maybe there's a reason people are leaving."
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
