People are leaving Massachusetts in droves. Who are they?

[msRB311]

Compared to most other suburban areas in the US the Boston suburbs actually are already densely populated. Salem has a higher population density than the city proper of Houston or Atlanta.

The problem is the size of the single family homes that continue to be built. They are huge, on large lots of the lands that could have had room for 3 homes. But people are allowed to do whatever they want with their own money right? Nothing can be done about the large homes already on big plots of land that are owned...but more could be done about these smaller homes knocked down and mcmansion built in its place every time. We need to bring back smaller homes.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by Champ le monstre du lac

One important factor I haven't seen discussed is hydrology. If towns and cities are going to be gunning hard for large scale development, solutions have to be made for large scale water resources and wastewater treatment. Rivers like the Ipswich River are already heavily compromised and nearly tapped out with several municipalities extracting water from it. Questions need to be answered like how much added water capacity can the MWRA and reservoirs like the Quabin supply. Then there are several semi rural towns like Boxford, West Newbury, Plympton, and Carver that are pretty much all well and septic that would need to be converted with new water and sewer lines.

I'm in the middle ground camp as there are indeed large vacant or underutilized land plots in well developed suburbs as Irfox pointed out that have more transportation sources and infrastructure that can accommodate more growth.

Also consider the Gateway Cities and their potential for more infill and redevelopment. If only the MBTA could get its act together, and really if American public transportation in general could get a serious upgrade going further into the 21st century and be more innovative with proposals such as high speed commuter rail and express trains from places like New Bedford, Fall River, Lowell, & Fitchburg getting commuters into Boston in well less than an hour without multiple stops en route. That would make development prospects in those cities a whole lot more appealing. But the status quo would immediately label such prospects as pipe dreams. And then here we are.

Great post. I hadn't given a ton of thought to water/sewer constraints. Those are indeed critical considerations.

You also hit on another major point. People need to be able to move around. And considering capacity contraints on roadways (and limited ability to increase capacity much) vs. the significant room for capacity increases on railways, the MBTA needs to get its act together. They need to make some ambitious upgrades to improve capacity and service and the development will follow. Gateway cities are a great place to look as they have a lot of the infrastructure in place and can accommodate large scale population growth (most are tens of thousands of people smaller than they were 50-60 years ago).

[msRB311]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Great post. I hadn't given a ton of thought to water/sewer constraints. Those are indeed critical considerations.

You also hit on another major point. People need to be able to move around. And considering capacity contraints on roadways (and limited ability to increase capacity much) vs. the significant room for capacity increases on railways, the MBTA needs to get its act together. They need to make some ambitious upgrades to improve capacity and service and the development will follow. Gateway cities are a great place to look as they have a lot of the infrastructure in place and can accommodate large scale population growth (most are tens of thousands of people smaller than they were 50-60 years ago).

Seems like a lot of work....and I'm guessing that is why not much is going to change anytime soon.

[gf2020]

The title of the Globe story is inflammatory and not really accurate. In a state with 7 million people, changes in population of any one demographic in the 10s of thousands is not statistically significant.

The population of Massachusetts has been ~7 million for the past 5 years. Annual fluctuations of +- 100,000 people are only equal to ~1.5%, again, not really impactful. The state's population has actually increased over 13% in the past 25 years and that's why roads are more crowded, public transit is failing and the infrastructure is crumbling.

[msRB311]

The biggest joke of all has been the MBTA....people dont realize how bad it can be until they've accepted that job offer and start using it. I truly think nothing is done about it because the powers that be dont care. People are kind of forced to use it because they have to...they might decide to drive in one day and that experience isnt much better.

MBTA needs to be fixed first before more building happens. It is irritating that people want to build all these complexes for others to move here with how bad the infrastructure is.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by msRB311

Compared to most other suburban areas in the US the Boston suburbs actually are already densely populated. Salem has a higher population density than the city proper of Houston or Atlanta.

The problem is the size of the single family homes that continue to be built. They are huge, on large lots of the lands that could have had room for 3 homes. But people are allowed to do whatever they want with their own money right? Nothing can be done about the large homes already on big plots of land that are owned...but more could be done about these smaller homes knocked down and mcmansion built in its place every time. We need to bring back smaller homes.

Boston is the 2nd least dense CSA of the top 10 CSAs when you look at weighted density

The least dense urban areas with more than 2.5 million population are all in the United States. The least dense is Atlanta, with 1800 people per square mile or 700 per square kilometer. The second least dense is, perhaps surprisingly, Boston, despite its reputation for high density

http://www.newgeography.com/content/...high%20density.

https://www.city-data.com/forum/60805588-post47.html

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by msRB311

The biggest joke of all has been the MBTA....people dont realize how bad it can be until they've accepted that job offer and start using it. I truly think nothing is done about it because the powers that be dont care. People are kind of forced to use it because they have to...they might decide to drive in one day and that experience isnt much better.

MBTA needs to be fixed first before more building happens. It is irritating that people want to build all these complexes for others to move here with how bad the infrastructure is.

Addressing extreme and complex problems like fixing the MBTA is obviously not a task our leaders are cut out for, even though that's what's desperately needed to alleviate congestion and open up more housing opportunities. So instead they pander with things like blackmailing and strong arming communities to build horrific apartment complexes that nobody wants and no local native born Americans want to live in. Like I said, we voted for this.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Great post. I hadn't given a ton of thought to water/sewer constraints. Those are indeed critical considerations.

You also hit on another major point. People need to be able to move around. And considering capacity contraints on roadways (and limited ability to increase capacity much) vs. the significant room for capacity increases on railways, the MBTA needs to get its act together. They need to make some ambitious upgrades to improve capacity and service and the development will follow. Gateway cities are a great place to look as they have a lot of the infrastructure in place and can accommodate large scale population growth (most are tens of thousands of people smaller than they were 50-60 years ago).

It’s only New Bedford and Fall River that are well below their peak population in the 1920s. Both were more than 120k population. Like usual, it all comes down to transportation infrastructure. Route 24 and the Southeast Expressway/I-93 are abysmal. South Coast rail continues to be delayed and Phase 1 is unusable since it’s likely to be a scheduled 80 to 90 minutes.

[massnative71]

Think about what that billion $$$ a year going towards migrants, could have done for our highways and the MBTA.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

It’s only New Bedford and Fall River that are well below their peak population in the 1920s. Both were more than 120k population. Like usual, it all comes down to transportation infrastructure. Route 24 and the Southeast Expressway/I-93 are abysmal. South Coast rail continues to be delayed and Phase 1 is unusable since it’s likely to be a scheduled 80 to 90 minutes.

The entire Southeast expressway needs to be demolished and rebuilt as a double decked, six lanes in each direction mega highway. Enough is enough.