"Bullies" and "abusers".... (sociopath, therapy, psychopath)

[Amelorn]

Originally Posted by indalicious

Hmm.. I think to some extent, psychiatrists defend bullying.

Could you go into this further? I am genuinely interested.

[Weatherfan2]

When you live with a condition like mine you tend to attract a lot of bullying behaviour, even from people who aren't usually into "bullying". People seem to get kicks out of belittling somebody they consider to be weaker, inferior or different instead of accepting that not everybody has to be or should be like them. They are possibly actually threatened by it, though you wouldn't think so on the surface.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by looking4answers12

Look up Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I discovered this on another forum. It's an eye opener.

Agreed. Narcissism is the source of so much bad behavior - from bullying to abuse and sociopathy.

In my study of these matters, many people who bully others, were raised to be entitled and actually treated better than were average, non-abusive people, by parents who pumped their children's egos, and deflected any of their child's flaws on to others, either within or outside the family.

In these parent's misguided efforts to protect and defend their child, children and families, monsters are created. There are entire families who are generationaly narcissistic, passing this lack of self reflection, and grandiose sense of self from themselves, to their children and to their grandchildren.

People such as these, initially do feel less than others, but by the second or third generation, the source of the original inferiority may be lost in a labyrinth of lies and pomposity. These people often feel cold and inauthentic to those who must interact with them.

If you are justly not impressed by the displays of such people, and they detect that you see through their egotistical display, watch out. They will lash out with fury and attack you!

How dare you not see how great they are?

[CArizona]

Interesting posts! Thanks!...I think bullies have trained themselves to let things "bounce off" them. It starts when they are young. If their parents "put them down" through sarcasm or wise-cracks they try to "laugh it off" versus taking comments personally...I see this go on in many families. Young kids don't feel qualified (or comfortable) confronting their parents. So they train themselves to let negative comments "go" without feeling the impact of "put-downs."...After awhile it all becomes normal and they adopt their parents' behavior and "put" others "down" too. (They become a "chip" off the "old block!")...Some families seem like TV sit-coms where everyone relates to each other through sarcasm and "put-downs" most of the time...But there are some kids who don't really want to go along with all of it. These kids don't automatically "stuff" all of their feelings when they feel "put-down." Unfortunately these kids are often mocked and labeled "sissies" for not going along with the family culture...If they're lucky they will find someone on the "outside" who will understand them and validate their feelings. (So they won't feel quite so alone and "weird" for not wanting to become a bully themselves.)

[pll]

Originally Posted by CArizona

Interesting posts! Thanks!...I think bullies have trained themselves to let things "bounce off" them. It starts when they are young. If their parents "put them down" through sarcasm or wise-cracks they try to "laugh it off" versus taking comments personally...I see this go on in many families. Young kids don't feel qualified (or comfortable) confronting their parents. So they train themselves to let negative comments "go" without feeling the impact of "put-downs."...After awhile it all becomes normal and they adopt their parents' behavior and "put" others "down" too. (They become a "chip" off the "old block!")...Some families seem like TV sit-coms where everyone relates to each other through sarcasm and "put-downs" most of the time...But there are some kids who don't really want to go along with all of it. These kids don't automatically "stuff" all of their feelings when they feel "put-down." Unfortunately these kids are often mocked and labeled "sissies" for not going along with the family culture...If they're lucky they will find someone on the "outside" who will understand them and validate their feelings. (So they won't feel quite so alone and "weird" for not wanting to become a bully themselves.)

Amazing post. You brought up some really good points. I have seen families like this where there is contant bantering. On good days the children can just brush off the comments but I do believe many of them take them to heart and they only learn how to hide it better. It can create an anger in them that they bring to school and share with their classmates. Heaven forbid there's a classmate that has some kind of imperfection..Those are the kids that usually get the brunt of the put downs.

[CArizona]

pll...I agree with you. Kids end up projecting their repressed hurt and anger onto others. These kids grew up in a home where their parents didn't have very much sensitivity or regard for their feelings or developing self-esteem. So they don't learn to consider other peoples' feelings either... Life is all about acting tough and "taking the first punch" to avoid looking weak and vulnerable. Their parents expect them to "laugh things off" and pretend they never feel hurt or sad etc...They have to act tough to please their parents and avoid being viewed as a "sissy."...This is all tied into "honoring our parents." (No matter how they act or treat us!)... It's sad when abuse and bullying behavior is passed down from generation to generation in families and never gets examined or questioned. It all becomes normal life and the "way to be."

[jasper12]

Well, having been the target of three different work place bullies, all women, I think they do it to feel more powerful, to get noticed by supervisors--"Look how tough I am", they don't know the difference between effective supervision and "bullying", or co-workers who have a grudge or are just plain mean. It is not just "sarcasm", it is relentless, nit picking, and outright sabotage. It is absolutely psycho. One woman, fired eight people to "prove" she had cojones. Well, no one wanted to work for her, and she was firing well qualified people, with a high skill level that can't be hired off the street--what did they do to her? Promoted her away from supervising, gave her a different job. People promoted to their highest level of incompetence.

[CArizona]

jasper12...Sorry about the bullies where you work and all their craziness...Dysfunction is everywhere...in families, in workplaces, organizations, the government etc. YUK! There's no way to get away from it...My Mom volunteered a lot when I was growing up. We weren't rich but my Mom just felt that she should help out at my school and our church etc..Every so often my Mom came home from her volunteer work upset. She said that the head of a group was making things rough for everyone. If things got really bad my Mom felt obligated to confront the leader herself for "the good of the group."...Everyone respected my Mom because she was a hard worker and a modest person. She wasn't a gossip or social-climber. When she stepped-up and confronted the head of a group it usually made a difference. And she chose her words and tactics very carefully...Anyway I learned a lot about dysfunction and "games" that go on in groups from my Mom early in life. My Mom felt that volunteers were there to do a job. She didn't like "primadonnas" who had big egos. Or people who used their involvement in a group as a mere steppingstone to bigger things. She had a way of bringing social-climbers "down to earth."...She was the "Robin Hood" of my school and our church. Yet she remained modest about all she did. She didn't want lavish praise or credit. Her focus was always on the "good of the group."

['M']

Was going to respond and rep some of you and then realized that ALL of your posts are 'rep' quality. Your posts show that you have learned first hand about bullying and have had an insight into the MO of bullies. Thanks for this thread and all the posts that are so genuine.

Yes, I do believe as some of you do that bullies seek out "weaker" personalities...but by 'weaker' the bully sees people that everyone likes as 'weak'. The bully knows on some level that our personality thrives off of positive interactions with others. They then decide they must damage the 'weak' person's reputation so that others will have nothing to do with them. The bully is a master manipulator who has a talent for zeroing in on just how to pull the rug out from under their target. Many times, those of us who are targeted are well-liked. We tend to be people who enjoy interacting with others, and others with us, too. The bully is always stalking us, figuring out an 'in' in order to damage us. They are experts at doing this. This is why so many of us have had our lives severely disrupted by the bully. The bully doesn't have the ability to feel or to have empathy for others. That part of them is broken. Bullying others is like a game to them and they enjoy stalking their prey. One book I read said that to a bully, wreaking havoc on others is akin to having an orgasm, for the bully aka sociopath.

A large part of the lack of knowledge about bullying is that the majority of us weren't raised in this kind of environment when we grew up, so we never entered the world expecting to meet an unconscionable person. We have no life experience with this type of personality. So, we don't believe there are people like this out there. The narcissist is very good at continually stirring this pot of lies and manipulation.

I, too, have a history of attracting bullies. So much so that I've researched this topic extensively. Bullies are narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths...as well as borderline personalities, anti-social personalities....the list goes on. These people have NO CONSCIENCE. That's how they are able to do what they do so well. There are a number of books and websites that are helpful in feeling supported in dealing with these kinds of people. Granted, it is NOT easy to deal with a bully, and often it is hit-or-miss.

As I look at my life and my personality, in all honesty, don't know whether I will ever be able to deal with a bully. It is just not in my nature. Not in this lifetime. But I've been attending groups, doing therapy. These things do help. Most therapists arent trained to help their clients deal with bullies aka sociopaths, etc because it takes special training to recognize this type of behavior for what it is: no conscience on the part of the bully. The BEST way to deal with them is to have NO CONTACT with the bully. Not easy to do, but is essential in getting this behavior out of your life.

Ten months ago I realized that a toxic work situation was never going to change. I did not want to quit this job, but I did because there were 4 major bullies who "fed" off each other. I think the supervisor got her kicks off of watching it play out every day. She was being bullied by upper management, too, though. I remembered my own vow from several years earlier and decided "ok, this situation is going to wind up damaging my health and well-being, so which is more important? Staying here to prove I can take it, or leaving for a better life." I am so glad I left the bullies. Yeah, where did all these toxic people come from? Yes, there didn't seem to be this many 30-40 years ago!!

Personally, I don't think the majority of them have high self esteem. What they have is grandiosity and defiance that appears as if it's self-confidence. Certain narcissists appear self confident and even easy-going, but if you unknowingly trigger one of their vulnerabilities (which only they know why it is, the average person would be scratching their head, trying to understand what ticked them off), they will retaliate in very cruel dehumanizing ways because they LACK self-confidence and are out to get you before you "get them"...that is how they see it. For my friend below, she often told me that she - as well as her adult daughter - was highly competitive and wanted to win at all costs. At the time, I thought her competition speech was getting a bit compulsive, but until later didn't realize what was behind it.

For example, one bully - the friend above = decided to destroy me because I asked her to keep something in my personal life confidential. She asked why I was asking that of her. I gave her a real life example of a mutual friend whose tumultuous life this bully often described in great detail, essentially repeating priveleged information about our mutual friend that should never have been repeated to ANYONE. Suddenly my so-called friend jumped up and said to me "You are SO mean!" Calling me mean because I asked for confidentiality and giving her an example of why I would actually ask her to do that. That was the end of that 10 year friendship. She was on a path to destroy me and she did do a pretty good job of it. Yeah, this woman was reallly never my friend. There are more stories I could tell about our 'friendship'. All of the women friends we shared were no longer my friend because my so-called friend told many untrue stories about me. She even told me the untruthful stories she was telling them...watching my reaction to her ongoing reveletions. I was toast. It has taken every ounce of strength I have to just let all this go and not go to these other friends to tell them that our friend isn't telling the truth. That she is a bully and is only telling them these stories so that they will have nothing to do with me. This was one of the most painful incidents in my entire life.

Your action may have been very benign, but something triggers them and they are then out to destroy you. They will stop at nothing. They can very convincingly manipulate your family, friends, and co-workers that you did x,y,z when in fact you did nothing of the kind. Once they've turned all these people against you, you are toast. These people will NEVER again believe that you did none of the things they were told you did against the narcissist. One thing about narcissists is that they cannot keep a confidence because they have no feelings and no conscience, so there is no inner compass guiding them to respect another's wish for confidentiality.

Even in corporations, it is rare to find an HR department savvy enough to recognize and put a halt to this behavior. There is training available to companies on this kind of dynamic. This is only one example of the thiings I've learned about bullies. I wish I would never have to deal with another bully again. But it seems like it's in my karma or something. Still working on it.

[jasper12]

You can live a bully free life. I left my bully, it took two years...but I could not stay in that situation, it was just too toxic. The whole thing took over my life. I was on medication, depressed, it was horrible.