Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
IF you're going to quote someone as you do in the thread title it'd be nice if you supplied a link that would provide the context of that quote. Otherwise it's close to meaningless.
I pretty much agree with WK91 that the U.S. military isn’t 100% focused on war fighting and winning today since IMHO, they attempting to reshape the military with a WOKE-ism value system. Again, IMHO, WOKE-ism and an effective fighting force do not mix, especially within the Combat Arms units of the Army and Marines, who’s primary mission is to fight and win in a land warfare scenario, which is often more up close and personal than air or sea warfare. Yes, fighter jets and bombers can be shot down and naval ships can be sunk, but house to house/urban street fighting or raiding an enemy defensive trench system is far more personal.
But when has the military been 100% focused on warfighting except maybe during times of war. Its had to deal with things such as racial integration, women in combat roles, homosexuality, sexual assault, drug abuse, transexual service members. I recall conversations in PME classrooms over homosexuals openly serving and comments over why we even had to have the discussions and what it had to do with our primary mission. At the same time, senior leaders were openly using the term f*ggot and how they could not support that. That's exactly why we needed to be having the conversations, education and training. What many would call wokeism in a different era. What I usually found over my career was it was the ones who didn't have to deal with conditions that made the playing field unequal or toxic for them, were the ones who never wanted to discuss it and work towards eliminating the wrong. Ironically, the term ****** was coming from Black Airmen. I remember mentioning to them that at some point in our history there were someone sitting around saying what n*ggers should and shouldn't be doing in their military complaining about leadership and their focus on civil rights instead of warfighting.
Quote:
I also feel that the senior military leadership are too involved within the elected senior civilian leadership and are too willing to “go along with the program” to please them. If the senior military leadership gives an opinion on a well thought out operation’s plan and the civilian leadership refuses to follow their advice, they should resign, which would cause the civilian to truly think things all the way out before deciding solely on political views.
Is this really new though. We could look at operations in Vietnam or the fiasco of Rumsfeld War. I wholeheartedly believe that the Pentagon got steamrolled by the White House on the Afghanistan withdrawal and was fully willing to let the President get egg on his face when it fell apart. So I agree with you that at some point a resignation was in order. Either before it transpired to try to bring light to the situation, or afterwards for accountability where you know civilians will not.
Quote:
Yoski, I was with you and all the points you were making until your political biases “muddy the waters” of being factual and to the point.
I hear you and thought about that as I was typing the post. But here is the deal, I spent a whole career listening to uniformed personnel openly bashing Democrats to include President Obama while he was CinC. TVs constantly on Fox News, not just for news, but as their host either served as state TV under Republicans or the resistance under Democrats. I even recall a breakfast with a 4-Star where he openly advocated for Trump's political positions, loosely justifying it all because he was speaking on our need to be focused on national security. It seemed to be always ok to be anti-Democrat/liberal, while ok to be openly pro-Republican/conservative. I kept my politics to myself as others should have, but now that I'm retired, I'm going to call it like I see it, from my perspective, interwoven with my beliefs. But I try to be a critical thinker and accept and analyze critique of my thinking. So yes, you are right I lost some standing by inserting my politics, but I researched Kurt Schlichter and his views as the OP didn't even provide a link to read, and I realized that this thread is based on someone's political bias so I chose a politically laced counterargument. Touché.
Quote:
I retired back in 2010 from the Army Reserves, 13 yrs Active and 17 yrs Reserve, with two combat tours in Iraq. Granted, I don’t have my finger on the pulse of today’s Army, but I still maintain close contacts with my local military community. What I have noticed from others, to including myself, “I” use to do my best to encourage individuals within my family and others about serving in the U.S. military, but lately, I’ve noticed that I haven’t been “selling” the ideal of serving for over a year now.
I blame this on the way that the Armed Forces of the United States departed Afghanistan.
That embarrassed and disappointed us all. I tell my students that your desire to serve should not be based on politics or current senior leadership. Your world will be much smaller than all of that, but your impact can still be significant. When they present concerns about politics I tell them that I served happily under
Presidents I did not vote for, and may not have liked. It did not impact how I feel about the quality of my time served. If you do choose to join the military, focus on learning and doing your job to the best of your ability, learn how to be an effective follower and then an effective leader. Take care of your people when you have them and be proud service while taking advantage of every benefit it has to offer to prepare yourself for life after you take off the uniform.
Quote:
The Army is always in a state of change. I enlisted back in 1980 and still remember family members who served in WW2, the Korea war and in Vietnam talking about “how much the Army has changed.” Now, I’m saying the same things. Honestly, the Army, as with all the other branches, are always in a constant state of change, which is to be expected due by the nature of their core mission(s). Most of the changes have been positive, but quite a few were less than positive, IMHO and no, I have no hard data to back that up.
After leaving Active Duty, I went into federal law enforcement and retired as a GS-13. Afterwards, I was hired by a local police agency and served as a Lieutenant/Watch Commander, before retiring from them once I was vested within their benefits system. Several of our younger officers had recently left Active Duty and we spoke of their reasons why they left the military, as well as talking to individuals STILL on Active Duty, but planning to leave and seeking a career within law enforcement at our local job fairs. The common theme ways that “things” were changing in a direction that they didn’t agree with or it was no longer enjoyable and felt that there were too many traps that could destroy your career over some stupid BS of political correctness. So for the career Senior NCOs and Company Grade Officers, many were simply looking for a change.
Those late 20s to early 30s year old E-7s, O-2s and O-3s do bring a lot to numerous career fields in the civilian world. And now, they are greatly in demand.
If you are a young E-3 or E-4, in your second year of your three year enlistment AND you are seeing your E-7s, O-2s and O-3s leaving Active Duty, that sends a message that this might not be a good long term plan by staying in the military. AND!! The byproduct of our E-3s and E-4s seeing this causes them to tell family and friends, that military service isn’t was they thought it would be. That message to somebody in the age group of 17 to 20 is very powerful since those E-3s and E-4s have strong credibility within their age group that an average recruiter cannot compete against.
I feel that military service can be made attractive to 17-24 year olds again by removing the WOKE/PC messages from their recruitment materials and focus on showing, using the Army, in its real world missions. Biological young men like seeing M1 Tanks, M109 SP Artillery, Paratroops and Green Berets, so create the message around them and what it takes to be part of that team. Also, throw in the benefits package like the GI Bill for college and VA home loans.
Using the Army again, stay the hell away from that disaster of a commercial of “Emma has two moms!!” Nobody cares if Emma has two or four moms. This does not bring everything to the table, other than being turned into a running joke punch-in…. That cost millions of dollars. Also, stay away from cartoons…. Cartoons are for idiots. Use the images of a super squared away Tomb Guards or the Army Drill Team to sell the Army’s story.
You said a lot and I can not argue with your opinion, experience and perspective. I agree with you in a lot of ways and feel that things can get taken to far. Things such as the helmet with rainbow bullets in support of gay pride month. Seriously? That Tomb Guard and drill team member could be openly gay, or maybe even transexual and serving with excellence and distinction. While I wouldn't be upset about a news story highlighting the progress that has been made, I dont need to see LGBTQ symbols all over the place. Let the service speak not the symbols.
With all that said, I thank you and salute your service bergun. That extends to WK91 and everyone who served. Regardless of our political opinions we share in our experience is so much greater. I'd rather have these conversations over a beer than a keyboard. While I never had to go boots on the ground in Afghanistan or Iraq, I flew ISR combat sorties over both then retreated back to my tropical operating base because I was smart enough to join the Air Force.
You know what Silicon Valley is? It's a jump ball at the beginning of a basketball game. Companies here use engineers around the world for pieces and construct a new finished product....hoping to be first and make some money. The rest of the world sends their best and brightest to steal it and take it back to their respective countries. $100M to develop....$500K to send someone to steal.
Hopefully Austin can be a bit more secure. I hate seeing prototypes of our products in Shenzhen that we didn't order.
Also, anyone can have a point, but to say our military is not serious....with all due respect....the RET is showing and it's time to go find the gospels.
2020 was a different administration, different leadership, and we were on the right track then. It’s 2+ years later and things have changed. I’ve noticed it clear as day.
It’s funny how you mentioned all those improvements we did back in the past administration, but fast forward to today, and China is so worried about us now, that they threatened the Commander in Chief to his face that he better not allow any of his politicians to visit Taiwan.
As of right now, the schedule says tentative for a visit to Taiwan. We are so weak that we can’t even straight forward say that we are visiting an ally.
But of course, they will probably back down from that visit, and then we can get back to the things that matter, like stopping white supremacy in the ranks because it’s 0.0001% of a problem, and then figuring out ways to divert money from the operating budget in order to make the military a better place for transgendered people.
Do you define insulting and berating not only our allies but our own institutions as bing on the right track? Tearing down NATO and your own country while licking Putin's boots in Helsinki. Ceasing major military exercises with South Korea to appease Kim Jung-un. Ceding Pacific trade control and influence to China by pulling out of TPP only to sit back and watch China replace us with the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership. Luckily we are slowly but surely working our way back from a disastrous four years global policy.
Remember that time when we actually did divert money from our military budget to build a wall. I guess we are still waiting on Mexico to reimburse that.
He makes some very interesting points. When the top strategic threats are announced as white nationalism and climate change, how can anybody around the globe take the US military seriously?
There are serious adversaries out there, mainly China, who are rapidly modernizing their military and gobbling up resources and infrastructure around the globe.
But here we are ignoring them, and focusing on white nationalism and climate change.
Does anybody think for a second that China gives a damn about Chinese (Han) nationalists, who oppress the minorities in China? They’ve got people in concentration camps, yet to many Americans, white nationalists are worse than what the Chinese is doing?
Lastly, does anybody think China gives a damn about climate change? We are destroying our own economy and military to “save the planet”, while the Chinese are rapidly enlarging their economic and manufacturing base and polluting the planet at an increased level.
Again, the US military is not serious anymore, and that is why a lot of people who would be serving, or will serve, has just said no.
But we can turn this all around if we become serious again. Stop with the wokeness and the climate garbage, and get back to focusing on winning wars against actual adversaries like China and Iran, and stop worrying about a couple guys in Michigan who were goaded into admitting that they’d like to kidnap the Governor.
Not sure if military is no longer serious, but as a civilian, I can see military is more and more like a job corp. Nothing truly unique about it anymore.
The warriors culture seems gone, because the Gung ho military culture is now toxic masculinity.
Do you define insulting and berating not only our allies but our own institutions as bing on the right track? Tearing down NATO and your own country while licking Putin's boots in Helsinki. Ceasing major military exercises with South Korea to appease Kim Jung-un. Ceding Pacific trade control and influence to China by pulling out of TPP only to sit back and watch China replace us with the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership. Luckily we are slowly but surely working our way back from a disastrous four years global policy.
Remember that time when we actually did divert money from our military budget to build a wall. I guess we are still waiting on Mexico to reimburse that.
I now see the problem, you are fully indoctrinated by CNN and MSNBC. I could refute everyone of your points, but there is really no reason to continue discussing anything because you are too far gone ideologically.
But I get it, your side has won. Even though I don’t like where we are headed, I know it’s going to get much worse. You mentioned your last assignment, which was led by Gen Brown. I’m assuming he will take over for Milley someday soon, and then we can really start tackling the non existent white supremacy problem (this is code for cracking down on political dissent within the ranks) and diverting even more of the defense budget to combat climate change, which doesn’t make us stronger, while our enemies pollute at a higher level.
2020 was a different administration, different leadership, and we were on the right track then. It’s 2+ years later and things have changed. I’ve noticed it clear as day.
It’s funny how you mentioned all those improvements we did back in the past administration, but fast forward to today, and China is so worried about us now, that they threatened the Commander in Chief to his face that he better not allow any of his politicians to visit Taiwan.
As of right now, the schedule says tentative for a visit to Taiwan. We are so weak that we can’t even straight forward say that we are visiting an ally.
But of course, they will probably back down from that visit, and then we can get back to the things that matter, like stopping white supremacy in the ranks because it’s 0.0001% of a problem, and then figuring out ways to divert money from the operating budget in order to make the military a better place for transgendered people.
Spot on. We are now a military joke to the world, especially after that Afghanistan exit.
Do you define insulting and berating not only our allies but our own institutions as bing on the right track? Tearing down NATO and your own country while licking Putin's boots in Helsinki. Ceasing major military exercises with South Korea to appease Kim Jung-un. Ceding Pacific trade control and influence to China by pulling out of TPP only to sit back and watch China replace us with the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership. Luckily we are slowly but surely working our way back from a disastrous four years global policy.
Remember that time when we actually did divert money from our military budget to build a wall. I guess we are still waiting on Mexico to reimburse that.
Insulting and berating other world leaders and forcing them to pay up for taking advantage of for decades worked pretty damn well. And everyone feared us again. They knew not to mess with Trump because he would take them out in a second, which he should have done if they escalated. There was not a single military incident during his four years in office, ever wonder why. Plenty of attacks during Obama’s tenure. Why? Because no one respected him or was afraid of him.
Sorry to tell ya, Trump in office today would end all of this crap in Ukraine, Russia, China and anywhere else. But you hate hearing that because of his very appropriate tweets.
2020 was a different administration, different leadership, and we were on the right track then. It’s 2+ years later and things have changed. I’ve noticed it clear as day.
It’s funny how you mentioned all those improvements we did back in the past administration, but fast forward to today, and China is so worried about us now, that they threatened the Commander in Chief to his face that he better not allow any of his politicians to visit Taiwan.
As of right now, the schedule says tentative for a visit to Taiwan. We are so weak that we can’t even straight forward say that we are visiting an ally.
But of course, they will probably back down from that visit, and then we can get back to the things that matter, like stopping white supremacy in the ranks because it’s 0.0001% of a problem, and then figuring out ways to divert money from the operating budget in order to make the military a better place for transgendered people.
That’s an exact Fox News talking point. Almost verbatim. If you want to be taken seriously, post your thoughts.
Ever single member of the JCS is a Trump appointee. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.
I now see the problem, you are fully indoctrinated by CNN and MSNBC. I could refute everyone of your points, but there is really no reason to continue discussing anything because you are too far gone ideologically.
But I get it, your side has won. Even though I don’t like where we are headed, I know it’s going to get much worse. You mentioned your last assignment, which was led by Gen Brown. I’m assuming he will take over for Milley someday soon, and then we can really start tackling the non existent white supremacy problem (this is code for cracking down on political dissent within the ranks) and diverting even more of the defense budget to combat climate change, which doesn’t make us stronger, while our enemies pollute at a higher level.
I take in media from across the spectrum, but if you are interested in knowing, I'm more of a Charlie Sykes, Jonah Golberg type. The critiques I made from of the last CinC were from across the political spectrum. My side didn't win, democrocay did. For now. I toss political barbs to counter what is decidedly a partisan complaint about the military, not a factual one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trusso11783
Spot on. We are now a military joke to the world, especially after that Afghanistan exit.
Based on what? Have we even had a single armed engagement of note in the last 1.5 years?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
