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When I served in the British Army we lived at times in barracks that were built years before WW2 with coal stoves for heating. There were snap inspections and a lot of B.S to make them look nicer, even painting a white line around the coal pile in the storage hut. The mattresses were awful and it was only because we all had strong young backs that we didnt end up walking on crutches or pushing a walker.
On field manoeuvres we sometimes slept inside the tanks or in the backs of ammunition trucks.
My father served aboard a destroyer in WW2 and did convoy escort duty to Russia at one period. Sleep was a luxury very few enjoyed as U-boats and Luftwaffe attacked the convoys on a regular basis. He had one ship torpedoed under him but was lucky enough like the rest of the crew to be hauled quickly aboard another ship before they would have frozen quickly to death in the icy waters. The crew accommodation aboard a WW2 destroyer probably makes your crew accommodation look like a 5 Star Hilton.
I sometimes wonder if the young generation today would have been capable of going through the same ordeals as their grandfathers did. I tend to very much doubt it.
No, they wouldn’t. In the time of WW2 most homes had no AC and some didn’t even have electricity. For many it was a constant struggle to survive and provide for the family. Children were expected to work at an early age at home or at a job. Today there are laws against child labor and that has led to some feeling as if requiring children to perform household chores as being cruel. The more laws are passed to protect, the more their feelings are hurt when times get tough. But it’s still no excuse for how the enlisted sailors were treated on this ship. I sometimes wonder if there’s a culture of elitist at the Naval Academy that causes certain types of officers to be produced who act as if they’re royalty over the enlisted instead of being a member of the ship’s crew. Rank does create a degree of separation but it’s seems senior officers take this to a higher level than other branches. Perhaps there should be a day or week that officers should live and work among the enlisted to gain perspective of what’s going on. On my second ship we had such a day and the XO worked in the scullery for a day.
You can talk down on the young generation, but that's the young generation you have and have to recruit. You can't grow another one.
It's meaningless to say they're volunteers because that's literally everyone in every job. That doesn't mean work conditions are irrelevant because you applied for the job and got it. Of course it's harder to get out of an enlistment than a bad job, but you're competing for the same kids as any other job. And you may have noticed that many industries are having a hard time attracting new workers, so I don't think the Navy is having an easy time meeting their quotas.
When I was that age, it was just after 9/11 and patriotism was at a huge high. I remember kids I knew who signed up then...fast forward 20 years and a few disastrous foreign wars later...I don't think the military can count on some groundswell of pro-military patriotism to fill the ranks. So they gotta shape up and make the package more attractive, and not just for senior officers.
What a disgrace.
We don’t have the money? To finish the refurbishing of the ship? $322 million is gone?
Quote
“As a result, sailors who were able to get into these barracks had on average 85 square feet in shared rooms -- in a building that the Navy believed likely had lead paint, asbestos and other toxic substances. The use of the 149-room building cost the Navy about $4.36 million per year.**********
Do major broadcasters pick up and run this story? For weeks on end as they do for some other crimes with the titillating details?
It is a criminal
I agree that it's likely a disgrace. But is it possible that the people who now enlist in the Navy are unmoored, directionless and likely predisposed to suicide? Back in the day people enlisted in the Navy to avoid being drafted into the infantry. Nowadays it is often a "last resort" choice for people who blew their high school education.
I agree that it's likely a disgrace. But is it possible that the people who now enlist in the Navy are unmoored, directionless and likely predisposed to suicide? Back in the day people enlisted in the Navy to avoid being drafted into the infantry. Nowadays it is often a "last resort" choice for people who blew their high school education.
And exactly who do think performs all the highly technical jobs aboard a modern day aircraft carrier? Do you think they're a few hundred Annapolis graduates, while the remaining 4,000 shipmates perform menial jobs, because they "blew their high school education".
People enlist in the Navy for a variety of reasons. And dropping out of high school, isn't one of them.
What a disgrace.
We don’t have the money? To finish the refurbishing of the ship? $322 million is gone?
Quote
“As a result, sailors who were able to get into these barracks had on average 85 square feet in shared rooms -- in a building that the Navy believed likely had lead paint, asbestos and other toxic substances. The use of the 149-room building cost the Navy about $4.36 million per year.
Meanwhile, according to a prior investigation into the suicides aboard the carrier, sailors were resorting to sleeping in their cars or paying for rent out of paychecks that are typically less than $2,000 a month.”
Yet we spend freely on our overseas shenanigans
Disgrace, just disgrace.
Why do I think that nothing will change unless there will be a public outcry?
Do major broadcasters pick up and run this story? For weeks on end as they do for some other crimes with the titillating details?
It is a criminal
Meh. 85 sq.ft is 8.5x10ft.. each sailor has that in a shared room? So like a 25.5x10ft room with 3 guys? Sounds big as the rooms we got when we hit E-4 at miramar.
As for lead paint and asbestos, those are risks that take many years to manifest, could not possibly contribute to suicide rates. Not in the minds of young adults even if they were aware. Were they just piling on stuff that sounded good?
Theres something going on but it aint living conditions and it aint limited to the Navy.
I got $190 every two weeks after taxes in 1980. When at sea we slept in 80 man berths stacked 3 high with cockroaches crawling on us. On base below petty officer rank we shared open barracks with a dozen guys within spitting distance. If you were lucky you could afford a car. Most guys ran out of cash a week before the next payday. Those that smoked (everyone but me it seemed) even earlier.
If anyone killed themselves (nobody I can remember ever did, not one person in any command) we would have just said who needs ya. Good riddance to a shipmate nobody could have counted on when needed.
Maybe I seem callous but maybe thats the attitude we need to conquer this.
I think whats going on with society in general is that with information technology so easy, people have unrealistic expectations of how their life will pan out and theyre not being realized so suicide is their solution.
Im not rich and famous and my car is an old beater and my wife is a butter faced sow unlike all the beautiful people I see on Tik Tok so Im gonna check out early.
Life was so much easier in the past because the bar for success was much lower, closer to home, and the most beautiful girl youd ever seen was in your class. The fastest car you could buy had 250 hp. The most complicated song had 3 chords. The biggest house was across town and had 4 bedrooms.
The Navy is suffering from severe issues of morale and training. The conditions are bad, the training is subpar and they are experimenting with changing the sleeping schedules to little avail. They tried to pin the fire on the Bonhomme Richard on a sailor, but in the end, officers were found negligent.
The Navy is top heavy. It's 1/9th the size it was in WW2, but there are more flag officers now than then - capped at 160 - but that means there is an admiral for almost every two ships and when reserve flag officers are included, there is almost a flag officer for every active ship.
It was only in 2019 that bread and water was officially removed as a punishment. (The USS Shiloh was known as the USS Bread and Water, its commander Capt. Adam M. Aycock was using it so much after he took command in 2015.)
The Navy is suffering from severe issues of morale and training. The conditions are bad, the training is subpar and they are experimenting with changing the sleeping schedules to little avail. They tried to pin the fire on the Bonhomme Richard on a sailor, but in the end, officers were found negligent.
The Navy is top heavy. It's 1/9th the size it was in WW2, but there are more flag officers now than then - capped at 160 - but that means there is an admiral for almost every two ships and when reserve flag officers are included, there is almost a flag officer for every active ship.
It was only in 2019 that bread and water was officially removed as a punishment. (The USS Shiloh was known as the USS Bread and Water, its commander Capt. Adam M. Aycock was using it so much after he took command in 2015.)
Would love to see a ship staffed entirely by officers from ensign to admiral and put them in enlisted racks and work schedule.
I suggest the complainers watch that excellent German movie "Das Boot" which would provide a very good idea what really tough living conditions were.
Recruits these days aint what they used to be and that should be a source of concern when and if a future war demands the hardships that would go with it
I suggest the complainers watch that excellent German movie "Das Boot" which would provide a very good idea what really tough living conditions were.
Recruits these days aint what they used to be and that should be a source of concern when and if a future war demands the hardships that would go with it
For real. Whenever I hear anyone in the Army complain about anything they go through, I tell them to watch the Rambo films. Now that John Rambo... HE actually had it rough.
For real. Whenever I hear anyone in the Army complain about anything they go through, I tell them to watch the Rambo films. Now that John Rambo... HE actually had it rough.
Rambo ha ha ha. Tell them to watch Band of Brothers. I wouldn't mind betting some of them would ask how they managed to do without cell phones and the internet.
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