Moving/Immigrating to Montana (buying, university, property taxes)

[Reziac]

What breeds have they tried??

Ever seen a Central Asian Shepherd? They run 120 to 170 pounds and are all athlete. They're what's used in Afghanistan against wolves.

[MTSilvertip]

This article is a couple years old, but does a pretty good job of adressing your question.
Wyoming couple looks to Old World dog breeds to protect livestock from wolves, bears

I know that Pyrenees can't stop them, and I know a couple of places that have Kuvos, same result.

It is a real problem.

[Reziac]

Kangals and CAS are, in my observation, a tougher dog than Pyrs and Kuvasz. But from your linked article -- the big difference appears to be that in Europe and Asia, they'll use a whole gang of flock guardians (it cites one group of 11 dogs for a large flock) and in America, people think you can get by with one or two dogs. It seems to me you've got to have the same weight in your corner as the wolves do or you're gonna go down.

[Threerun]

Karelian Bear Dog

Karelian Bear Dog Page

The Karelian Bear Dog originated in northwestern Europe, and was originally the dog of Russian and Finnish peasants. The breed was mainly used for hunting and as a watch dog. Only the toughest survived fightings, and hunting under very hard conditions.
The Karelian is a Finnish breed. Early dogs had red, red-gray and black & white coats. The Komi dog is considered to be the origin of the breed and basic stock dogs originated from Ladoga's Carelia, Olonets & Russian Carelia. In further breeding, the progeny was selected to the Karelian Bear Dog type and only black & white dogs were preferred for breeding. The first breed standard was established in 1945. The first Karelian Bear Dogs were registered in the Finnish Kennel Club in 1946. Today the breed is one of the top10 most common breeds in Finland.

From Wiki

They are silent but tenacious hunters and alert only when they have the prey at bay. They will keep prey cornered there by barking in a very high, fast bark and running back and forth or around the animal until their handler comes and dispatches it. Karelian Bear Dogs have been known to hold an animal at bay for a very long time[SIZE=2][citation needed]. If a bear tries to leave, the dog will nip at it on the backside and aggravate it to keep it from running away.

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[historyfan]

We use livestock guardian dogs against predation of coyotes, lions, and bears. A wolf pack would wipe them out unless we were nearby to add firepower. The breeds of dogs that can handle wolves can be rather dicey around people. I would have to give it serious consideration before going that route.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by Threerun

Karelian Bear Dog

Ever see one in the flesh? They're about the same size as a Heeler, and per the ones I've seen, not nearly as confident.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by historyfan

We use livestock guardian dogs against predation of coyotes, lions, and bears. A wolf pack would wipe them out unless we were nearby to add firepower. The breeds of dogs that can handle wolves can be rather dicey around people. I would have to give it serious consideration before going that route.

Depends on the breed. The immediate ancestor of the Labrador Retriever is the Cão de Castro Laboreiro, which was specifically bred to defend against wolves. I haven't seen 'em in the flesh, but I've seen a bunch of videos, and it's pretty clear where the working-type Lab got its temperament. They're pretty durn tolerant all around. (And the brindle coloring still pops up in Labs to this day.)

Conversely, I know a bunch of CASs, and I wouldn't trust them with a stranger's life. They're not aggressive as such, but they trust no one other than their owner. You're ALL livestock rustlers in their eyes.

===

One of my Labs has so much throwback to the Castro type, that he actually tries to round up sheep (or puppies) and keep them on a 'safe' patch of grass. He doesn't want to herd them, he just wants them all in a nice safe clump. He also has the Castro's distinctive "wolf scream", tho applies it to rattlesnakes. Makes your ears bleed.

[historyfan]

Yes the numbers game is the issue. You can not put your livestock guard dog at a numbers disadvantage even with coyotes and they must of course wear thick spiked collars.

Guards against wolves are likely going to have to kill the wolves. Because the wolves are going to kill the dogs unlike other predators which will defend but not necessarily hunt down& attack your guard dog.

The guard dog is supposed to either chase off predator a short distance or stand and defend his livestock. The guards make a safe bubble around the livestock. They are not to leave them unguarded. That is smoething young ones have trouble with sometimes and get suckered into chasing coyotes into a canyon & being killed by the pack.To deal with a pack of wolves one would need dogs to deal with wolves and dogs to stay with livestock. It would take some doing.

[MTSilvertip]

I know that all wolves are identical

However, there are differences between the Eurasian wolf, Wolves Of The World - European Gray Wolves - Canis lupus lupus

and the Candian Greys introduced here. Giant Wolf Epidemic: Huge Packs Of Giant Canadian Gray Wolves Are Terrifying Idaho Residents

Mackenzie Valley wolf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The ones here are significantly larger than the Eurasian breeds, and larger than the native Rocky Mountain wolves, and had different behavior as well.

Native Rocky Mountain Wolves v. Introduced Canadian Gray Wolves

We don't want to turn this thread into another wolf thread though, NiinaP the original poster had questions that went far beyond wolf problems, and we should try to keep to the original topic.

[historyfan]

Niina,
Growing grains and hay can be done in most areas of the state. In order to be organic you would need be a distance, how far I do not know, from other grain producers becuse herbicides and pesticides are used in typical Montana grain operations.
Most grain is not irrigated unless it is part of a crop rotation where another crop is principal cash crop grown in that field. While Montana is considered arid to semiarid, there are areas that traditionally have rain during the growing season.
Your farmstead type operation could be successful in several regions of the state. The wolf interest would put you in areas in the Greater Yellowstone which tends to have shorter growing season and higher elevations than areas where climate conditions would make it easier.
That said you might find what you seek in areas around Bridger. It has good soils and surprisingly long growing season...you can grow pinto beans there for example.