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Hey Giftshopguy...............Right on ! You put it right into perspective.
Don't count the people count the houses and measure the sprawl. I kind of gave up a couple years ago, I just gave inside and said "who gives a grap anymore" to myself, but it keeps resurfacing, I keep wondering why are we doing this to our valley, and the hipocracy of it all, the public and political sentiment always is touting the "Quality of life", "control growth".....but their actions are in complete contrast.
It suddenly dawned on me one day, how with very few exceptions all our problems a exemplified with growth, that are a direct result of growth. Doing something about growth would go a long long way into solveing those problems.
If the community does nothing else it should STOP encouraging growth, if you want to take it a step farther, the community with support of the local government adopts as an unwritten policy, that simply states......"that we as a community are filled to the brim with growth, we are having trouble dealing with it, we love you all and would like you all to come here and be our neighbors BUT we just can handle it anymore"
But the almight buck, the mother milk of politics will never alow that to happen, so we are perfectly willing to see our whole area and way of life go down the crapper for the "love of money".
And don't tell me the stuff about it's jobs, we had jobs before, abeit our ups and downs. So what is the point of bring in jobs if people from out of state come in to take them, in escense there is just more competition for the locals to face getting those jobs, AND in many cases the tech jobs that do come are fill by out of staters because the out of state people are coming in from places like Seatlle or Calif were they could and did in fact acguire the needed skills, leaving our local folks in many instances at a distinct disadvantage when applying for those jobs.
Then we acutally pay companies to come here ( I won't mention any names ) they bring in $8 dollar jobs (not saying some don't make more), so all an $8, $10 hour job does is quaify a mother for welfare. These low paying jobs, typicaly retail, attract a certain amount of people to take them and linger here, so we got lots of people coming here and packing the valleys and all they get is a low paying job, they bunk up with others sharing rentals, etc. what is the point ? Well the 'growth people' love it, build more cheap rentals, lots of people banging nails, nail bankers mostly from out of state and the vicious cycle continues, eating up our valley and our way of life, great, what a brilliant bunch we are, not to mention our local leaders, who are just all in bed (figuratively speaking) with the developer types.
So there you have it, the houses are creeping up and over the hills like a cancer on the landscape.
You know people leave Calif, Florida, where ever to come here because want to get away from the crowds and problems there, they're ticked off about where they live, But then they don't understand why we get ticked off when they come here to crowd us.
It's true people are free and can do and move where ever they want. But do you really have to stand right next to me and breath down my neck, have a little respect for other people's space and way of life.
I like, I'm sure alot of other Montanas really do like people and don't care where they are from, and we are welcoming, but you just can't blame people when they get ticked because they get the distinct feeling that someone is breathing down their back. If we are ticked don't blame us, blame yourself
Last edited by JoeJoeMan; 02-12-2007 at 01:17 PM..
I do see the frustration expressed in those last two posts. I actually like living in a big city, Phoenix has about four million people, but of course there's trade offs that you have to make. It's easier to find a high paying job but your commute will probably be very long. An interesting point was made about the physical size of the Missoula valley. It's true that hills surround a good portion of the town and force development to go in particular directions. There's only so many houses you can squeeze into that area so it creates a dilema. Of course we live in a free country where people can come and go as they please and a city simply can't say "sorry we're filled up". The only thing you can do is discourage new developments by placing restrictions on developers as to where they can build and given the political and financial clout of big developers that can be very difficult. I guess I'm so used to big developments that I don't even think about it. There are tens of thousands of new houses for sale in the Phoenix area and I can see new ones being built everywhere I look. It's at least 75 miles from one end of the metro area to the other and it's getting bigger every day. However, I do know what you're feeling because I lived in Missoula in the mid-seventies and it's changed drastically since that time.
i have been reading the posts here, and most of what i have been reading makes it seem like some of you just dont want ANYONE to move to montana. you blame everything on the 'outsiders'..
Do what you feel you need to do. Research and make appropriate road trips to the areas you are interested in. In good and bad weather conditions. Don't let others dictate what you need/want to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by halliwellalien
where i live now, a 3bd 1 ba house with a very small yard (if any) will cost you about 700k. i have lived here most of my life and i am already sad about having to leave. but, i am not bitter toward anyone who moves here. whether they have money or not. change will happen whether you like it or not. .
HMMM you must live in Ca I couldn't afford to buy my own house now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by halliwellalien
please stop blaming everyone for the bad things. good and bad are everywhere. some of us really do want to move to montana because of the beauty we see. not to make it worse.
Some people have to blame "everyone", because if it's not them, then it is "everyone" else that's causing the problem (in their eyes). Smile and move on. You will be fine.
Some of us are used to being caring and kind to each other.... we've grown to have a sense of community....... we've enjoyed the company of good neighbors and are accustomed to those who would be responsible.
Our communities are small and close and thoughtful of each other....
What's been going on over the recent past, is that we are being displaced by those who would rather not be kind, caring, close or responsible.....
We have those who would much rather upset our economic apple cart.. who trod on our forests and open spaces..... who don't give any thought to our natural beauty, our history and most of all, our people and how they've chosen to live.
We who are Montana, have lived through the refining fires of life... we've suffered through countless rough winters, economic depressions, and drought filled cropless seasons..... We, who are Montana, deserve to be who we are.
The sentiment is indeed understandable in many cases.
There are those here in Montana that are witnessing, first hand, their way of life being swept away by those who would just as soon care less about us, our way of life, our concerns, our economic survival, and especially, our wide open spaces.....
Montana is a mighty rich girl..... she's experienced countless numbers of abuses over the past 100 or so years. It's not so much us, but more Montana herself, that decides who stays..... many who come here, leave, because Montana doesn't allow them to stay...... whether it be by economics, climate, geography...... many who come, don't stay.
We'll witness the million dollar homes for sale in Lincoln County as a testament to this fact..... we aren't just any ole cup-o-tea..... and many who come here find this out in pretty short order.
Now, I'm not going to sit here banging away on this keyboard telling everyone to just stay away..... Quite the contrary......
I'll say... Come on in....... Move here...... Settle down and live the good life.....
Everyone deserves to live their dreams.... if they can..... and if moving to Montana is a part of your dream..... then so be it.....
And while you are making preparation to fullfill your dream, you might want to consider cutting your current budget in exactly half of what you've grown accustomed to.... because it's gonna take some dollars to just live here, neverminding anything else, like new cars, private schools for the kids and so on.... and so forth.
Prepare yourself, your family, to run on the proverbial shoestring... to fly by the seat of your pants.... to run roughshod...... because sometimes, living here just isn't the "walk-in-the-park" that some would have you believe.
There's a price to be paid by those who choose to surround themselves with all of this beauty......
If you are moving to Montana for the "simple" life...... then your bucket will overflow with it for sure...... just remember to live "simple"..... and you'll be alright.
i started out in san diego it took 36 years before it became a place i didn't want to live,i've been in oregon 14 years and it's time to move.i do my research online make up a list of possible place i might like and take a few weeks to check them out.you have to realize no place is going to stay the same forever,by being unpleasent to new commers you ruin the place yourself.we all need to be more tolerant of new people.the original people who lived in montana were rounded up and put on the reservation after our attempted genocide failed.as far as i'm concered no one has a right to live in montana except the tribes that originally inhabited the land there.just think how we changed there quality of life by systematically doing our best to exterminate every indiginous people in north america.so lighten up on the people who see montana as a place they might want to live.
as far as i'm concered no one has a right to live in montana except the tribes that originally inhabited the land there.just think how we changed there quality of life by systematically doing our best to exterminate every indiginous people in north america.
Yea so take your own advice and don't move here !
One way of life was destroyed years ago, now we are destroying the second way of life.
otto-focus, I'm glad to see you understand that, so move somewhere else and encourage others to do the same, and maybe you can help prevent repeating the same mistakes of the past.
If people on this forum think I'm ticked about what is currently happening to Montana, try asking a 'native american' what they think !
PS: as a side bit, the tribes in montana may very well have not been the orginal inhabitors of the area going back 13,000 years, over that period of time many different tribes or strands of people were probably pushing and shoving each other all the time in and out of the area. Especially as new waves of people came in from asia. So who is really the decendents of the "FIRST" people to occupy this area ? Who knows. The current tribes, somewhere back probably just took it from someone else, who took it from someone else, who took it.....you get the picture.
I'm sure if we all go back far enough, we'd find that our ancestors at one point were shoved out of their land. Then again we are all from africa, should we all go back and claim our piece ?
[quote=JoeJoeMan;363852]
Yea so take your own advice and don't move here !
One way of life was destroyed years ago, now we are destroying the second way of life.
otto-focus, I'm glad to see you understand that, so move somewhere else and encourage others to do the same, and maybe you can help prevent repeating the same mistakes of the past. QUOTE]
so, why was it ok for you to move to montana all those years ago, but its not for the new comers? is it because you have already ruined it? truthfully i feel sad for you joejoeman. you are so bitter. you never have anything nice to say.
johns65vette, thank you. it just makes me sad to think that there are people out there that are mean and bitter towards people who move into their towns. oh! and i dont live in california. (nothing wrong with californians. i was born there)
JoeJoeMan,
Your comments to Otto-focus sounded pretty hostile. I don't want to come across as negative myself but after reading alot of these posts I honestly think several of you have greatly exaggerated the growth situation in Montana. Montana doesn't even have any big cities and by big I mean at least a million in population. You really can't even talk about sprawl and congestion until you reach a certain size and there's not a town in Montana that's even close to reaching it. Also, consider the fact that we're all American citizens and one of our freedoms is the right to live anywhere we want to. A few people have obviously found this forum and are just looking for a little advice and encouragement because some of them are thinking about moving to Montana. I was drawn to it because I was born and raised in Montana and feel a strong connection to it despite the fact that I no longer live there. As I mentioned before Montana's growth rate is miniscule compared to other western states. To say that Montana's way of life is being destroyed is just not a realistic statement. It's still one of the most rural states and despite it's huge size it only contains about one third of one percent of the US population. Anyway, I mean no offense, I'm just trying to put things in perspective.
Too much going on
While it can be entertaining to read
I would rather not fuel the fire
I guess some folks are just negative type people but what are you going to do?
I Am A Single Mom Who Moved Out Of Los Angeles To Montana 5 Years Ago. I Left L.a Because Of The Crime. I Was Not Very Well Received In Small Town Mt. At First I Didnt Blame The Locals, Afterall, They Did Not Want Thier Town To Be Another L.a. However, Since Living In 2 Small Towns In Mt.(both Under 4,000 Pop.) I See That All The Crime, Underage Drinking, Drugs Ect. Are Being Done Not By Me Or My Children (the Hated Californians) But, By The Long Time Montana Natives! I Dont Know Of One Parent Here That Does Not Drink. Only A Handful Dont Use Drugs, And Almost All The Kids Here Have Had M.i.p Citations.
I Think The Beauty Of This Land Is In Its Scenery, Not In Its People! Not That I Have Not Met Some Very Nice Folks. I Feel It Is Time To Move Away, So My Kids Will Have A Decent Chance At An Education, As Well As More Activities For Them.
I Am A Single Mom Who Moved Out Of Los Angeles To Montana 5 Years Ago. I Left L.a Because Of The Crime. I Was Not Very Well Received In Small Town Mt.
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. If you don't mind my asking what town are you living in? You know I find that people often try to blame others for their own failures or shortcomings. To be honest I couldn't stand to live in a really small town. I remember my sister lived in Chinook, Montana and their little newspaper would actually have an article if someone had guests from out of town. I mean, what kind of life could a person have if they would find that sort of information interesting or informative? It probably would be a good idea to at least find a bigger community where you could have a variety of activities and might occationally find people to socialize with. Good luck.
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I couldn't afford to buy my own house now.
the only constant in life is change
but what are you going to do?
every now and then.
Its Not Just The 'outsiders'
