Laguna vs. Newport - Which is better? (personal, acre)
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I'm not really sure what your interpretation of "need" is. If by "need" you mean places where gays go to avoid being hassled, that was certainly an element 40+ years ago. But apart from that, gay venues are also a means by which gays socialize and meet other gay people, just like mainstream bars and mainstream food and entertainment venues for which there still is a demand. Gay venues still exist in some cities throughout the country. There is much debate about whether the internet has caused reduction of their presence in some cities or not. While tech is definitely a factor, I tend to think it also relates more to regional gentrification, costs, and globalization affecting some areas more than others.
I think even in the south, gays aren't harassed anymore. You'll be fine here.
While tech is definitely a factor, I tend to think it also relates more to regional gentrification, costs, and globalization affecting some areas more than others.
I don't understand what "globalization" means as a reason for the Boom Boom Room and Little Shrimp closing.
Laguna Beach certainly didn't need "gentrification", it has long been an enclave of wealth.
If gentrification and costs were reasons then gay clubs in Laguna Beach would close and open in Santa Ana and Stanton, but Orange County has very few gay bars left.
I don't understand what "globalization" means as a reason for the Boom Boom Room and Little Shrimp closing.
Laguna Beach certainly didn't need "gentrification", it has long been an enclave of wealth.
If gentrification and costs were reasons then gay clubs in Laguna Beach would close and open in Santa Ana and Stanton, but Orange County has very few gay bars left.
The comment was directed at the overall phenomena not specifically those places. As globalization has caused shifts in population and extremely expensive real estate in many, it has resulted in closure of many independent businesses, including many mainstream venues that cannot support the changed customer base. LB may not have needed gentrification but the surrounding areas have become much more costly. There is no reason why this trend would not affect gay venues, especially given that the market is already a limited minority and becomes even smaller in some locations due to a variety of complex factors. I don't think that's hard to understand. I'm not sure I understand why you seem so bent on advancing your agenda that gays just don't "need" gay venues anymore, so nothing to see here. You are free to your beliefs, and I'm free to mine. I asked a simple question for people informed on this topic who may be reading this board.
Last edited by bostongymjunkie; 06-08-2021 at 04:38 AM..
I'm not sure I understand why you seem so bent on advancing your agenda that gays just don't "need" gay venues anymore, so nothing to see here. You are free to your beliefs, and I'm free to mine. I asked a simple question for people informed on this topic who may be reading this board.
Sorry, but I see you as the one with a pet theory and apparently you don't like people questioning your pet theory with facts that blow it up.
Which "facts" were you referring to, this opinion piece you linked to? This is driving your self-proclaimed expertise on gay subculture? I've read many articles like this and agree with most of what is said here many of which support my overall theory. A theory, I might add that is lived from the inside not the outside.
A few abstracts from your article:
"As with any complex social change, there are a number of reasons why this is so. Historically, gay bars have been in marginal neighborhoods where rents were low; but what gentrification giveth it also taketh away, as yesterday’s periphery becomes today’s unaffordable hotspot."
“The covers are getting ridiculous and the vibe at a lot of ***** parties has changed. I don’t know if it’s the influx of straight gawkers or the fact that it increasingly seems like you have to have stupendous amounts of money to go out in this city, but a lot of young queers are opting out of our current bar scene.”
"So not only is gentrification closing old stalwarts—which is true of all kinds of bars—but those that remain are slowly sliding into irrelevance as the ***** scene flocks to a new kind of underground: temporary, unlicensed spaces that more mainstream types don’t yet know much about, often in peripheral areas such as West Oakland or Ridgewood, Queens."
In the case of San Francisco, over the last half-century the city’s gay bars have gone from invisible and forbidden to public and numerous—and, ultimately, may be falling victim to their own success. The need for ***** spaces endures, but the combination of gentrification, social acceptance and the changing nature of the bars themselves is pushing the vitality of the scene elsewhere.
Yeah, okay. Aside from the actual FACT that it's just another opinion, it's not exactly a slam-dunk rebuttal of my so-called "pet theory." Expenses in high cost areas, invasions of obnoxious straight people, changing populations. This pretty much sums up what I argued referencing "complex social factors." Nothing about not "needing" gay social spaces. Quite the contrary, actually. Not really sure why any of it matters t you though?
Last edited by bostongymjunkie; 06-08-2021 at 03:35 PM..
The fact that gay bars are disappearing, even in inexpensive places. The fact that gay people can be comfortable and safe in bars not explicitly gay and still meet people. The fact is gay bars and venues are not a growth industry.
Laguna since it is more laid back and still has a bit of that classic mid-1900s California vibe. The part of Newport I like the most is Balboa Island for this reason too. I do like the roads in Newport Beach a lot though. You can land a 737 on those wide greatly engineered streets.
The fact that gay bars are disappearing, even in inexpensive places. The fact that gay people can be comfortable and safe in bars not explicitly gay and still meet people. The fact is gay bars and venues are not a growth industry.
The question was never if gay bars have been reduced in number, the question was whether gay venues which go beyond "gay bars" are "needed." I never spoke to whether "gay bars" are declining overall I spoke to my theory on why they have declined most in areas most affected by gentrification and globalization and in areas where they once were plentiful. I also never opined on the economics of whether gay bars are or are not a growth industry, none of which have any bearing on whether gay venues are needed. Even your opinion piece supports the need for gay social spaces in a number of ways. Having lived experience, I think I am in a better position than you to know what some of the needs are.
The rest of your drivel is just fallacies of logic pulled out to support your need to be right - just like the opinion piece you pulled off the web trying to pass off as indisputable "facts" supporting your claims. I don't need to google for knowledge about this topic, I live it. I didn't realize I had stumbled across the OC Forum resident know-it-all... but I get it now. There is at least one in every room.
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