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my son is a high school senior applying to college right now so I am well aware of exactly how financial aid works. Most students can't get into Ivies and similar highly selective meets needs schools that provide that kind of aid. And that includes students with 4.0 GPA and 1500+ SATs because there simply are not enough seats at these schools for all the students who are qualified.
I can assure you that once you get out of that very top tier of schools with very large endowments, the school assessment of financial need starts to change rapidly and the amount a family is expected to pay goes up dramatically.
Now, there are schools are cover the full financial need of families based on income level (for the most part, the top income level is well above the national median household income level) via grants, etc., whereas others do offer minimum loans in the packages.
Regardless, going back to your earlier point about whether I plan on being poor for the rest of my life so that I can qualify for need-based aid (note, you didn't try to distinguish between hard to get into schools when you made that statement), the fact remains that most families in this country are not rolling in dough. The median household income in this country is less than $70,000. And, considering that the average student borrows roughly $30,000 to cover the costs of an undergraduate degree (and I'd wager that this figure isn't higher precisely due to need-based and merit aid policies at countless schools . . . I am aware of the college student aid process today as well having close relatives who are now in college, both at Ivy League schools and at HBCUs, among other schools), most aren't drowning in unimaginable debt like the subject of this thread is. Note, my position on students getting substantial need-based and merit aid in general based on the average student loan debt for an undergraduate education is further enhanced once we look at what the average cost of attendance is per year at public vs. private schools: https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college If students weren't getting substantial need-based and merit aid, the average student loan debt would be much higher than it is today. In short, the number of schools offering full need-based grant aid may be small comparatively (still quite substantial in many ways), but the number of schools offering substantial need-based aid is not.
In any event, I mentioned need-based and merit aid in the post that you responded to; merit based aid opening the door for serious financial aid for even more. Between merit and need-based aid and the ability to receive in-state tuition (all points I have touched on throughout my posts in this thread), I firmly double down on my position.
Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 09-28-2021 at 04:18 AM..
my son is a high school senior applying to college right now so I am well aware of exactly how financial aid works. Most students can't get into Ivies and similar highly selective meets needs schools that provide that kind of aid. And that includes students with 4.0 GPA and 1500+ SATs because there simply are not enough seats at these schools for all the students who are qualified.
I can assure you that once you get out of that very top tier of schools with very large endowments, the school assessment of financial need starts to change rapidly and the amount a family is expected to pay goes up dramatically.
Much has changed in the past 10 years.
The point is that EVERY school has an expected financial contribution from the parents. Regardless of what sort of aid the school offers, if the parent makes enough money that he is expected to contribute, then the student is not eligible for any sort of aid (be it loans, grants, scholarships) for that amount. So if the OP is expected to contribute $15K a year and does not, the child has to figure out how to scrape up the $15K through work. That isn’t always possible for a student who is likely in jobs that may only be paying slightly over minimum wage.
Now, there are schools are cover the full financial need of families based on income level (for the most part, the top income level is well above the national median household income level) via grants, etc., whereas others do offer minimum loans in the packages.
Regardless, going back to your earlier point about whether I plan on being poor for the rest of my life so that I can qualify for need-based aid (note, you didn't try to distinguish between hard to get into schools when you made that statement), the fact remains that most families in this country are not rolling in dough. The median household income in this country is less than $70,000. And, considering that the average student borrows roughly $30,000 to cover the costs of an undergraduate degree (and I'd wager that this figure isn't higher precisely due to need-based and merit aid policies at countless schools . . . I am aware of the college student aid process today as well having close relatives who are now in college, both at Ivy League schools and at HBCUs, among other schools), most aren't drowning in unimaginable debt like the subject of this thread is. Note, my position on students getting substantial need-based and merit aid in general based on the average student loan debt for an undergraduate education is further enhanced once we look at what the average cost of attendance is per year at public vs. private schools: https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college If students weren't getting substantial need-based and merit aid, the average student loan debt would be much higher than it is today. In short, the number of schools offering full need-based grant aid may be small comparatively (still quite substantial in many ways), but the number of schools offering substantial need-based aid is not.
In any event, I mentioned need-based and merit aid in the post that you responded to; merit based aid opening the door for serious financial aid for even more. Between merit and need-based aid and the ability to receive in-state tuition (all points I have touched on throughout my posts in this thread), I firmly double down on my position.
Schools are the ones who assess need, not families. And from actual personal experience, I can tell you that the assessments can vary wildly, by 10s of thousands of dollars, for the same family using the same numbers.
You can double down all you want but your imagination and supposition from reading some websites isn't going to change my opinion based on the actual lived experiences I am currently going through personally and which I discuss on a daily basis with dozens of other families going through the same thing.
Schools are the ones who assess need, not families. And from actual personal experience, I can tell you that the assessments can vary wildly, by 10s of thousands of dollars, for the same family using the same numbers.
You can double down all you want but your imagination and supposition from reading some websites isn't going to change my opinion based on the actual lived experiences I am currently going through personally and which I discuss on a daily basis with dozens of other families going through the same thing.
Yes, schools assess need, but they do so based on clearly laid out policies and principles (generally) and after taking into account information provided by families that touch on income, expenses, assets generally, family size, etc. That assessment can vary doesn't change this.
Double down? Imagination and supposition from "reading some websites?" That's rich. You've yet to provide a thing but anecdotes You say that you have lived experience. And I do as well. What's your point? That's the problem with anecdotes and personal experience. They are like arses. Everyone has one. This is why I provided additional information and hard stats to actually support my points. You continue to try to use your own personal opinion to push a narrative, the actual evidence on average debt, average college cost (again, as I wrote, both go to the fact that students are getting substantial financial aid generally speaking) be damned. The stats I provided clearly and logically support the position I am pushing. You choose to ignore them because they go against your anecdotal experiences
Or are you going to claim that the information provided by these sites on the average cost of attendance for public vs. private schools, the average student loan debt, etc., are lies?
But, to your earlier point posing what I see as an funny question, I maintain that it is silly to question whether one plans to remain poor in order to qualify for need-based or merit based aid. Again, folks aren't rolling in dough as a general matter based on actual income patterns and I dare say that folks aren't planning for this outcome in order to get some college need-based aid
Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 09-28-2021 at 08:56 AM..
No there is no obligation. If you want to try to help them, that is up to you. Otherwise they will need a combination of work, scholarships and loans just like most of us (parents) did. When I was in college, the kids whose parents paid their way were the kids more likely to engage in bad behaviors because they were bored and had no appreciation for the opportunity they were given. Parent are not doing their kids a favor by paying their way through. Part of figuring out how to come up with the money is part of growing up
No there is no obligation. If you want to try to help them, that is up to you. Otherwise they will need a combination of work, scholarships and loans just like most of us (parents) did. When I was in college, the kids whose parents paid their way were the kids more likely to engage in bad behaviors because they were bored and had no appreciation for the opportunity they were given. Parent are not doing their kids a favor by paying their way through. Part of figuring out how to come up with the money is part of growing up
I have toyed with the idea of surprising my son with all my retirement once he finishes college and has his own kids and i know he is responsible adult
I honestly want a super frugal retirement , living life now and want the young ones to enjoy it not to have it wasted on some caregiver wiping my old a$$
No there is no obligation. If you want to try to help them, that is up to you. Otherwise they will need a combination of work, scholarships and loans just like most of us (parents) did. When I was in college, the kids whose parents paid their way were the kids more likely to engage in bad behaviors because they were bored and had no appreciation for the opportunity they were given. Parent are not doing their kids a favor by paying their way through. Part of figuring out how to come up with the money is part of growing up
The important part to remember is, like several of us have tried to say, even if you as the parent decide not to help, the school will determine the cost based on what they (the school) believes the parent can pay. Not on what the student alone can pay. Not on what the parent wants to pay. But on what the school determines the parent should pay.
In those cases the parent is really screwing their kid over.
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You say that you have lived experience. And I do as well. What's your point? That's the problem with anecdotes and personal experience. They are like arses. Everyone has one. This is why I provided additional information and hard stats to actually support my points. You continue to try to use your own personal opinion to push a narrative, the actual evidence on average debt, average college cost (again, as I wrote, both go to the fact that students are getting substantial financial aid generally speaking) be damned. The stats I provided clearly and logically support the position I am pushing. You choose to ignore them because they go against your anecdotal experiences 
