If you needed further proof of impending disaster... (Phoenix, Tucson: school, taxi)

[NDak15]

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

OOOOOOooooo now y'all riled up the Climate debaters.

It was 80° a couple of days ago. Today's high is 60°. It rained all night. Williams is supposed to get like 10" of snow. By that evidence it must mean AZ is getting colder and more wet since Phoenix's average high in January is 67°.

Do you know what long range data is? Also none of you climate change deniers seems to ever have any evidence that is contrary to scientific evidence that can be accessed very easily.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

OOOOOOooooo now y'all riled up the Climate debaters.

I'm riled up about people in both camps who claim they have it all figured out. Whenever there is a controversial topic, the truth is always in between both camps. And whenever someone thinks they have it all figured out because it aligns with their political belief, chances are your view is heavily clouded.

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

It was 80° a couple of days ago. Today's high is 60°. It rained all night. Williams is supposed to get like 10" of snow. By that evidence it must mean AZ is getting colder and more wet since Phoenix's average high in January is 67°.

In actuality, big shifts in the magnitude of weather across the world are hints of climate change. As in, it correlates to something going on. The only question that remains is what is the cause (as in, the weighted average).

Someone pointing to that an 80-degree PHX day happened on January 1st as "proof" of anything is, well.... Not very well thought out.

[Lodestar]

Originally Posted by Potential_Landlord

Yeah. They understand science like MAGA understands patriotism.

You both make the mistake of politicizing science. Not a good idea. Science is science regardless of which party it contradicts.

Edited to ad: I forgot to ask you if you remember what happened when the Inquisition was in charge of science.

[GearHeadDave]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

I never said I understood their modeling (math and science). I'm an engineer, but I'd have to study the heck out of it. I bet the farm I'm going to agree with the majority who study it for a living.

What I am saying is a bunch of non-technical (far, far, far less than me) are convinced everything we are seeing with the climate is because of their political belief. With one camp, it is man-made. And the oceans are going to rise several feet if we don't stop eating beef and quit burning fossil fuels. I'm also saying a lot of equally non-technical people are 100% convinced it is B.S. Again, because of their political belief: i.e. man has NO control. Their "proof" is by showing the world's temp changes over time.

I'm saying that most are in no technical position to be convinced of either extreme POV. All I know is that a blanket of gas over the earth can warm it. And I also know that things like volcano eruptions impact the temp, too. Hence, I'm technical enough to understand that I'm not technical enough to be so damn bold in my assertion. You might need to read that last sentence twice.

I'm an engineer also (automotive/aerospace). Nice to see others in here.

I certainly can't claim to have all the data at my fingertips that climate scientists have at their disposal, nor the experience and expertise. But I have been studying this subject and the available data for a long time.

For many years I was in your camp, where the jury was out whether global warming was a naturally occurring phenomena or whether the root cause was the burning of fossil fuels by humans. Believe me I was pretty skeptical back in the day when Al Gore would give his goofy talks on the subject. Of course I am skeptical about everything because my job was structural analysis and failure root cause determination.

The tipping point for me in part was what I posted previously - the correlation between CO2 and industrialization is very strong.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/a...ntry=~OWID_WRL

The other data that convinced me was the ice core story. When you look at the chart below showing the CO2 concentrations for the last 700,000 years based on the ice core analysis, you can see a vertical line on the far right. It looks like noise or a data spike, until you realize that the slope of CO2 change in the last 75 years is so extreme compared to the past that it is indeed almost a vertical line.

https://climate.nasa.gov/rails/activ...osition=inline

Not sure the Phoenix forum is the best place to discuss this in any case.

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

I'm riled up about people in both camps who claim they have it all figured out. Whenever there is a controversial topic, the truth is always in between both camps. And whenever someone thinks they have it all figured out because it aligns with their political belief, chances are your view is heavily clouded.


In actuality, big shifts in the magnitude of weather across the world are hints of climate change. As in, it correlates to something going on. The only question that remains is what is the cause (as in, the weighted average).

Someone pointing to that an 80-degree PHX day happened on January 1st as "proof" of anything is, well.... Not very well thought out.

I was actually agreeing with you in a round about way and yes, we are warming up globally. Pointing to an 80° day in January in Phoenix and saying it is proof of climate change is a bit...misguided. Apparently my sarcasm pointing out that todays high was 60° and is a valid proof point was misinterpreted.

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by NDak15

Do you know what long range data is? Also none of you climate change deniers seems to ever have any evidence that is contrary to scientific evidence that can be accessed very easily.

Where in the world did you get that I am a "climate denier"? Project much?

[NDak15]

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

Where in the world did you get that I am a "climate denier"? Project much?

Or I just misread your post. If that's the case I'm sorry.

[NYC refugee]

Originally Posted by GearHeadDave

Not sure the Phoenix forum is the best place to discuss this in any case.

Yeah, but they're all going to die of the heat pretty soon, so it's now or never.

[GearHeadDave]

Originally Posted by NYC refugee

Yeah, but they're all going to die of the heat pretty soon, so it's now or never.

Not sure, but I am a Midwesterner and love the American Southwest. Can't afford to live there but visit whenever I can. (Not in midsummer though).

[BECLAZONE]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

Must be all the swimming pools.

Build them, and the heat will come.