The "validity" of the bible (Buddhist, Buddha, church)
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In another thread, a poster complained that several of us are off topic because we are addressing issues other than the very specific statement in the OP. He stated, "The validity of the Bible is NOT the topic here".
So I would like to make that a formal topic -- is the bible a valid work of non-fiction? (I think that's the best way to put it, but if someone would like to reword that, please feel free...because I'm not afraid to open up a true and broad discussion) of a topic.
There are many articles one can find by searching the topic. The ones listed below were of interest to me:
1. Is every passage in the bible historically true, and if not, what percentage of the bible do you think is fiction?
2. When a witness in a legal case tells one or two lies and it taints his entire testimony...isn't that bascially what we're dealing with in terms of the bible?
(And by the way, just to be fair, I have just as many doubts about things written in Buddhist scriptures, and I've never felt they were all non-fiction...I always felt they outlined valid teachings, but were not historically accurate).
Last edited by toosie; 06-15-2018 at 06:13 PM..
Reason: Removed personal reference
Based on your cited articles, it appears you are only seeking editorials (not fair and balanced research and discussion) that dispute the truth of the Bible.
Two elements of your issue are: (1) Is there verifiable proof the Bible is God's inspired Word?
and (2) How should one respond to what is written in the Bible? --- People often bypass #1 and then attempt to deal with individual content biases. However, if it can be verifiably shown that the Bible is God's inspired Word, #2 becomes an entirely different matter.
There is overwhelming and verifiable Prophetic, Scientific, Archaeological, Literary, Mathematical and other evidence that the Bible is exactly what it claims to be: God's inspired Word of Truth (and certainly not "an ancient book written by ignorant shepherds." I've written a book on the subject with a website, if you are truly interested (ucanknowthetruth.com). Note: I'm neither trying to sell or promote books, but, simply providing the information you seem to be requesting.
Based on your cited articles, it appears you are only seeking editorials (not fair and balanced research and discussion) that dispute the truth of the Bible.
Two elements of your issue are: (1) Is there verifiable proof the Bible is God's inspired Word?
and (2) How should one respond to what is written in the Bible? --- People often bypass #1 and then attempt to deal with individual content biases. However, if it can be verifiably shown that the Bible is God's inspired Word, #2 becomes an entirely different matter.
There is overwhelming and verifiable Prophetic, Scientific, Archaeological, Literary, Mathematical and other evidence that the Bible is exactly what it claims to be: God's inspired Word of Truth (and certainly not "an ancient book written by ignorant shepherds." I've written a book on the subject with a website, if you are truly interested (ucanknowthetruth.com). Note: I'm neither trying to sell or promote books, but, simply providing the information you seem to be requesting.
And as a minister who IS trying to sell books, you are only seeking to prove the bible is accurate.
And what I bolded...nonsense.
Here's what I see as the problem with people like you -- and I'll explain it by referring to Buddhist scriptures, which I "respect". I can look at the Theravada Tipitaka and say, "I don't believe it...literally. I think it is a series of stories that serve to teach various principles. I know it was written 454 years after the death of Buddha. So the only question is -- do the individual stories illustrate valid principles?" If you were to ask me, "So you don't think that the New Testament outlines valid principles?" "I'd say that I doubt that the Sermon On The Mount ever happened, at least as outlined in the bible, but it's a wonderful story that teaches some valid principles."
Based on your cited articles, it appears you are only seeking editorials (not fair and balanced research and discussion) that dispute the truth of the Bible.
Two elements of your issue are: (1) Is there verifiable proof the Bible is God's inspired Word?
and (2) How should one respond to what is written in the Bible? --- People often bypass #1 and then attempt to deal with individual content biases. However, if it can be verifiably shown that the Bible is God's inspired Word, #2 becomes an entirely different matter.
Easy. It can be shown the bible is a collection of works of different genres, with different and ever evolving theologies, often contradictory. This is what we would expect of a work that evolved over 1,000 years instead of being the word of a god.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton
There is overwhelming and verifiable Prophetic, Scientific, Archaeological, Literary, Mathematical and other evidence that the Bible is exactly what it claims to be: God's inspired Word of Truth (and certainly not "an ancient book written by ignorant shepherds."
'Prophetic truth' is evidence that the fiction known as gospel Jesus was invented out of the Old Testament (according to scripture, as Paul put it).
The Archaeological evidence does not help as it shows the people who would become the Jews were originally Canaanite.
As for scientific and mathematical evidence, there is none whatsoever that was not common knowledge by a people more advanced than we give them credit for.
Easy. It can be shown the bible is a collection of works of different genres, with different and ever evolving theologies, often contradictory. This is what we would expect of a work that evolved over 1,000 years instead of being the word of a god.
…..
WELL worth repeating.
A question worth asking is why anyone familiar with the promises of Jesus as represented in the book they look to for authority would look to that book when the promise is for an entirely different "guide."
In another thread, a poster complained that several of us are off topic because we are addressing issues other than the very specific statement in the OP. And he says, "The validity of the Bible is NOT the topic here".
So I would like to make that a formal topic -- is the bible a valid work of non-fiction? (I think that's the best way to put it, but if someone would like to reword that, please feel free...because I'm not afraid to open up a true and broad discussion) of a topic.
There are many articles one can find by searching the topic. The ones listed below were of interest to me:
1. Is every passage in the bible historically true, and if not, what percentage of the bible do you think is fiction?
2. When a witness in a legal case tells one or two lies and it taints his entire testimony...isn't that bascially what we're dealing with in terms of the bible?
(And by the way, just to be fair, I have just as many doubts about things written in Buddhist scriptures, and I've never felt they were all non-fiction...I always felt they outlined valid teachings, but were not historically accurate).
My opinion is closer to what I bolded above. As I posted recently somewhere in this forum, for me it is not at all about what is "true" or "not true", or in your words, fiction or non, about the Bible. It just doesn't matter.
To answer your questions:
1. That sounds nonsensical to me to begin with. What makes you (general you/anyone) think that there is such a "percentage" that is fictional and non? Besides the obvious (snakes don't talk, the entire world could not have flooded, etc.) how would any of us living today know if anything told in the Bible happened the way it is said it did anyway? More importantly, what difference does it make?
I like to write. Have had a few things published. I spend way too much time on CD instead of working on The Long-Suffering Historical Novel, which, with its themes of religion and race and our commonalities over our differences is probably something I should get back to in the hopes that it will make people think in a world where not enough people are thinking about those things.
To further my writing pursuits, I read Stephen King's book On Writing, which is part auto-biographical and part about the craft of writing. One thing that stood out to me was his statement that, "No matter what you write, you must always tell the truth." He's not talking about the truth being about vampires or telekinetic teenagers. He's talking about the truth of human behavior. So it is with the Bible. You can see King bring that to the table in The Stand, his version of the Book of Revelation after a superbug has killed off most of the population.
Did a dead guy get up and live again? Some people think that literally happened, but EVERYBODY can understand the concept of death/renewal/rebirth in our human experience here on earth. The question might better be put "what do you believe is literal and what is metaphorical?" I still couldn't answer that question with a percentage, because I honestly don't have a percentage of belief, and further "belief" is not the basis of my spirituality beyond the concept of a connectivity of all things, but I lean toward looking for symbols and metaphors in writing, personally. I have a friend, an ordained deacon in the Episcopal Church (and married to a Jewish-born atheist) who said once that if you proved to her tomorrow that Jesus never existed, it would not change her beliefs because truth is truth.
2. No, I don't think so, but neither do I think that if a witness tells a lie or two in his testimony, that it taints the entire thing. Besides, the "Bible" is not a self-contained singular work. It's a collection of 66 diverse writings that just happen to be bound together.
Last edited by toosie; 06-15-2018 at 06:14 PM..
Reason: Edited quoted post
My opinion is closer to what I bolded above. As I posted recently somewhere in this forum, for me it is not at all about what is "true" or "not true", or in your words, fiction or non, about the Bible. It just doesn't matter.
To answer your questions:
1. That sounds nonsensical to me to begin with. What makes you (general you/anyone) think that there is such a "percentage" that is fictional and non? Besides the obvious (snakes don't talk, the entire world could not have flooded, etc.) how would any of us living today know if anything told in the Bible happened the way it is said it did anyway? More importantly, what difference does it make?
I like to write. Have had a few things published. I spend way too much time on CD instead of working on The Long-Suffering Historical Novel, which, with its themes of religion and race and our commonalities over our differences is probably something I should get back to in the hopes that it will make people think in a world where not enough people are thinking about those things.
To further my writing pursuits, I read Stephen King's book On Writing, which is part auto-biographical and part about the craft of writing. One thing that stood out to me was his statement that, "No matter what you write, you must always tell the truth." He's not talking about the truth being about vampires or telekinetic teenagers. He's talking about the truth of human behavior. So it is with the Bible. You can see King bring that to the table in The Stand, his version of the Book of Revelation after a superbug has killed off most of the population.
Did a dead guy get up and live again? Some people think that literally happened, but EVERYBODY can understand the concept of death/renewal/rebirth in our human experience here on earth. The question might better be put "what do you believe is literal and what is metaphorical?" I still couldn't answer that question with a percentage, because I honestly don't have a percentage of belief, and further "belief" is not the basis of my spirituality beyond the concept of a connectivity of all things, but I lean toward looking for symbols and metaphors in writing, personally. I have a friend, an ordained deacon in the Episcopal Church (and married to a Jewish-born atheist) who said once that if you proved to her tomorrow that Jesus never existed, it would not change her beliefs because truth is truth.
2. No, I don't think so, but neither do I think that if a witness tells a lie or two in his testimony, that it taints the entire thing. Besides, the "Bible" is not a self-contained singular work. It's a collection of 66 diverse writings that just happen to be bound together.
You may not realize it, but in my view you just made my primary point for me.
However, if it can be verifiably shown that the Bible is God's inspired Word,
Quote:
There is overwhelming and verifiable Prophetic, Scientific, Archaeological, Literary, Mathematical and other evidence that the Bible is exactly what it claims to be: God's inspired Word of Truth (and certainly not "an ancient book written by ignorant shepherds."
Care to provide some of that 'verifiable evidence'?
Whilst clearly, some of the places, events and people in the bible did exist, many did not. Those that say that the bible is 100% true must show, with verifiable evidence, that all people and places mentioned existed and all events took place.
We that don't believe in the validity of the bible only need to show that it contains ONE thing that simply cannot be true, in order to cast doubts on it's validity.
I think the bible is invaluable for documenting the culture and beliefs of ancient middle eastern people. Some of the stories are thought-provoking. Some of the language is poetic and beautiful.
But not much of it is true.
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