If God has a plan, then why would you pray for anything? (Buddhist, Islam)
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The problem Jen, is that you, like other atheists, tend to see THIS life as finite. It's the ONLY life we have. Once we die, we die, and that if God was a "good" God, He would prevent us from dying...because after all, THIS life is the ONLY life we have...
But Christians don't see it that way. They see beyond this life through the promise of Jesus. God may decide that we are to die from a bullet...or COVID-19. And while *you* may see it as 'tragic', some Christians do not. The person who was shot may end up in heaven, because God chose to 'take him out' at a point when his belief was highest...and 'take out' the shooter, knowing that the shooter was 'lowest', and that would never change.
One thing Christians depend on: God's timing is perfect.
Jesus said: "Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead?
Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!"
We are commanded to pray to God for things, so that God can have the infinite pleasure of turning us down.
A homeless woman (who loved God, by the way, and tried to pray her way out of her situation a lot) set off a chain of events that led to her death. She decided to lay in the grass to rest. A concerned citizen called 911 saying she might need medical assistance. Police arrived, her dog I guess took a step toward the police officer, who then feared for his life from the 20 pound animal, tried to shoot him, but missed and killed her.
My neighbor, when I expressed my heartache, told me that was God's plan for her. OREALLY. And at which point did he intervene to cause all this to happen?
Did he help her lose her last job? Help her acquire this dog? Give a whisper to the concerned citizen? Cause the bullet to go to her instead of the dog? All of the above?
If so, why? Then we are all puppets. Or he doesn't intervene at all. He certainly isn't handing out promotions and healthy children to certain sectors of society and having starvation and bombs drop on others, that so happen to coincide with economic/political reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink57
It DOES mean, that we can't be too sure...
I think what Mink is trying to say, Jen is that God works in mysterious ways donchaknow, and His thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are much higher than our ways donchaknow, and He's doing all this ugly stuff to test our faith and there HAS to be evil in the world so that there can be good (whatever the hell that means ) and God has to allow evil so that we can have free will to choose Him and not evil (again, whatever the hell that means ) and it isn't God fault evil exists, it's Adam's and Eve's fault for eating the apple and God knows that suffering builds character, and there's no evil that can overtake us that we cannot overcome, even if that evil ends up killing us like it did that homeless woman who prayed regularly to God to deliver her from evil. If God has nothing else, He certainly has a sense of humor.
I think, jen this is what Mink is trying to tell us in her very subtle way.
It is. The church in which I grew up, the Reformed Church in America, or RCA, was very big on missionaries. Their mission was to aid in bringing the Bible to remote tribe in Central and South America, Africa, and Asia. They did bring food and medical supplies, but the main focus was on saving souls.
Meanwhile, we were ten miles from an impoverished former industrial city that had never recovered from the Great Depression, and there were poor, hopeless people there. I didn't know that until I grew up. The people who needed the church's help were always portrayed as being in a foreign land.
The missionaries my church sponsored showed up occasionally to speak and gather donations. I listened to the stories of the disgusting things they ate and knew I could never do that.
I have to admit that the missionary program to Kenya that my grandmother's church supported was quite open about the fact that it was about conversion.
The problem Jen, is that you, like other atheists, tend to see THIS life as finite. It's the ONLY life we have. Once we die, we die, and that if God was a "good" God, He would prevent us from dying...because after all, THIS life is the ONLY life we have...
But Christians don't see it that way. They see beyond this life through the promise of Jesus. God may decide that we are to die from a bullet...or COVID-19. And while *you* may see it as 'tragic', some Christians do not. The person who was shot may end up in heaven, because God chose to 'take him out' at a point when his belief was highest...and 'take out' the shooter, knowing that the shooter was 'lowest', and that would never change.
One thing Christians depend on: God's timing is perfect.
I could almost buy that except for one thing. I don't fear dying. It will happen to all of us. My only question in that regard -- to christians -- is why god makes some people suffer so in dying. It's unnecessary. It's cruel. But you'll make an excuse for that too...even when it's happening to you or people you love. It's disgusting.
Perhaps that's the problem and clue that if he exists he is not an all-loving god.
Or perhaps, He can see the larger picture better than we can. Perhaps if we could understand as well as He can, we would not be so critical of what we see as His failings.
Thank you for this food for thought.
It is discouragement at its finest if I am asked to live in God's image.
A god that floods, a god that demands a father to kill his son? Ohh wait he did kill his son Jesus...
A swarm of locust?
Slaughter of children?
A god that thought nothing of King David swapping wives....
Seriously it's hypocritical to create the commandments and not be a role model.
I was advised on varying occasions that I was praying all wrong. I said...God hears the intent. And as sure as I pray...he always answers NO! So when I stand at the pearly gates am going to ask if I'm going to H E double toothpicks. Watch that be the only time he says yes.
No, you're not "puppets". Just because God knows what you're going to do/think/say, doesn't STOP you from doing it.
If a mother knows that her child is going to forego studying for a test, does that mean that she's causing him not to study?
Not in the least.
It's so obvious, isn't it?
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Then we are puppets in his personal show.
) and God has to allow evil so that we can have free will to choose Him and not evil (again, whatever the hell that means 
