Thoughts on Roanoke as I prepare to leave. (Richmond, Lynchburg: appointed, fit in)

[Scott94]

Originally Posted by Mountain Living

Although I have family ties to Norfolk Southern and I hate to see so many families lives uprooted I am glad Norfolk Southern
Is leaving town. Roanoke City will be barely affected downtown but I think Roanoke County will see less revenue from property taxes from these higher wage earners. The sale of the tower downtown could prove to be a win for the City with another higher wage Company. I know there is a big need for office space with the Veterans Affairs office or Allstate. It really made no sense to
Have a major railroads' operations in remote Roanoke. We grew up with the railroad but we grew tired of its overbearing nature and it's reluctance to allow growth to take place here. Now we can all take a sigh of relief Roanoke has lost its coal dust from the past and we are exploring a new Roanoke of the 21st Century.

NS is certainly still in town with over 1,000 jobs, but they won't be as prominent anymore. You mentioned Allstate, but they are in the process of downsizing and moving their employees to a smaller building. That leaves a large empty building downtown, and one in Roanoke County. Maybe we'll see two new companies come to the area, but I am skeptical.

Originally Posted by NomadStephanie

To be crass--probably the biggest catalyst will be when the greying boomer population starts to die off.

You're probably correct with that statement, and here is an article posted today over concerns of the area's aging population. Of course, not having any large or state universities in the MSA can skew the numbers somewhat.

I believe the lack of any substantial higher education hurts Roanoke more than anything else. If young professionals have no educational reason to be in the area in the first place, there is little incentive bringing them here after graduation. You're also not going to see many new industries take a chance here because of this. This is why I believe that Roanoke focuses on tourism so much; because it is something that Roanoke can excel in when compared to similar localities, instead of competing for jobs that we have little chance to get when all is said and done anyway. The ultimate goal seems to be becoming Virginia's Asheville, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but not something that bears much significance in the long run.

[Mountain Living]

I too am concerned about the tourism emphasis. Economic development has never been a High Priority for the Roanoke area.
The local county governments have little clue or talent, coupled with a state which looks down on this part of the state as hopeless. Other hang ups is a reluctance for change and the belief if we do encourage growth our beautiful area might begin to look like Norfolk or Atlanta. There is an old saying "It is what is is". Roanoke started to die after the flood in the mid eighties.
It came back after the loss of Norfolk Western to Norfolk and some movers and shakers got moving. We are not on the verge of
Decline but if we don't wake up we will lose other top employers. Norfolk Southern has given us a brutal punch and we are still
In denial. If I were a Norfolk Southern employee mixed up with this Company I would be apprehensive on what lies ahead for me
Wherever they send me. While revenue increases for this Company they are leaving the people, Roanoke, retirees behind while
Their stock holders continue to smile with glee on their stock profits. Sadly, this is the American way of capitalism. I was amused when our country Mayor Bowers lament "We are heartbroken". Beth Doughty of the Roanoke Regional Partnership basically commenting it wasn't her fault, ha ha.

[sregorat3]

Originally Posted by Mountain Living

Although I have family ties to Norfolk Southern and I hate to see so many families lives uprooted I am glad Norfolk Southern
Is leaving town. Roanoke City will be barely affected downtown but I think Roanoke County will see less revenue from property taxes from these higher wage earners. The sale of the tower downtown could prove to be a win for the City with another higher wage Company. I know there is a big need for office space with the Veterans Affairs office or Allstate. It really made no sense to
Have a major railroads' operations in remote Roanoke. We grew up with the railroad but we grew tired of its overbearing nature and it's reluctance to allow growth to take place here. Now we can all take a sigh of relief Roanoke has lost its coal dust from the past and we are exploring a new Roanoke of the 21st Century.

Interesting take on this bombshell. I tend to think that this is not a positive, as it represents a downward move for the total jobs in the market. I doubt that it will have a huge impact on unemployment initially, but as the losses trickle out to other businesses, there will likely be some negatives. Certainly good to see that Roanoke will be keeping the shops open; even if you hate the heavy industry, those are good jobs. NS has some plans for rebuilding some of their loco fleet and a good bit of that work will be done in Roanoke. I found it interesting to hear the mayor mention that Roanoke has the 2nd most diverse job market in the state.

[theluckygal]

I lived in Roanoke for couple of years & moved away last year for a new job. My reasons for moving away were job opportunities as well. I think Roanoke would flourish more if it was closer to a bigger town, like Greensboro is close to Raleigh area. But there are no mid-big towns within 3hrs of Roanoke. You have to travel 2.5-3hrs to get to charlotte, Richmond or Raleigh. If Roanoke was an hour drive from towns where there is plenty of work, I would have never left. I loved the friendly people, scenic view & slow pace of the town. You don't get that in big towns at all. So much time is lost in traveling to work & no one has time to chat. I believe Roanoke is designed to stay small & affordable. Its a great place to be a healthcare professional or retire after cashing your 401k. I miss the country music station 94.9 that played old country songs. Big towns play only the latest country songs that are horrible. I heard good things about the Floyd music festival as well. People seemed generally happy, low crime rate, decent weather & low cost of living. Every town has its pros & cons.

Sorry some of your experiences were bad. Hope you like the new place & find many opportunities. All the best.

[Mountain Living]

Originally Posted by theluckygal

I lived in Roanoke for couple of years & moved away last year for a new job. My reasons for moving away were job opportunities as well. I think Roanoke would flourish more if it was closer to a bigger town, like Greensboro is close to Raleigh area. But there are no mid-big towns within 3hrs of Roanoke. You have to travel 2.5-3hrs to get to charlotte, Richmond or Raleigh. If Roanoke was an hour drive from towns where there is plenty of work, I would have never left. I loved the friendly people, scenic view & slow pace of the town. You don't get that in big towns at all. So much time is lost in traveling to work & no one has time to chat. I believe Roanoke is designed to stay small & affordable. Its a great place to be a healthcare professional or retire after cashing your 401k. I miss the country music station 94.9 that played old country songs. Big towns play only the latest country songs that are horrible. I heard good things about the Floyd music festival as well. People seemed generally happy, low crime rate, decent weather & low cost of living. Every town has its pros & cons.

Sorry some of your experiences were bad. Hope you like the new place & find many opportunities. All the best.

I think you said it all about the Roanoke experience. There are places to live at various times in one's life. Living in a large
U.S. city is enticing to a younger person as employment opportunities are promising. Roanoke is Roanoke. We don't aspire
to compare to Charlotte, Raleigh or Lynchburg. Bigger is not always Better as it relates to a City or an urban area. Have you been to Detroit or Nova lately? Good Luck!!

[disastermouse]

Originally Posted by badger74

As a refugee from the lures of the big cities I have lived in or near--NY, Chicago, LA, Seattle, Atlanta and the now overgrown Austin I think the desire to become the next big city is not what many locals and we refugees want at all. The young can follow that well worn path from small town life to big city opportunity which will always be better in big cities. Very few small cities can claim dynamic non tourism or college based economies. The young should try making it on the larger stage. At least here in Lynchburg you see quite a few returning in their 30's to raise the family the way they were raised. Of course you do have to have the right degree (MD or nuclear or teaching here) and or family connections to make that work. That's life in smaller towns. Or you start a restaurant or business as noted. I am fine with 1-2% growth and a stable community. I saw what rapid growth did to Austin and Seattle. So forget chasing that big company looking for the best deal--they come and go again. Better to hope a homegrown one hits it big and does not move to Charlotte or Atlanta and grows organically. That's the beauty of healthcare--has to be nearby. Old-timers in L complain about LU's growth all the time. But they forget LU replaced the many jobs lost when the cell phone company pulled out in the early 2000s.

A lack of competing quality jobs drives health care wages down - WAY down. Nepotism is endemic in all small towns but Roanoke adds much more dramatic class dynamics on top of it.

Roanoke seems to long for the 'good old days' (pre-civil rights era) - blind to just how screwed up that time was.

I come from an area with a more limited potential than Roanoke - in theory - but the class and income inequalities aren't nearly as dramatic.

[NomadStephanie]

Originally Posted by Veneficus

But, it is a green space in the city. That is literally what it is, how does it fail at that?

Roanoke puts its "beautiful Greenway" on a lot of promotional material. It's built up as part of Roanoke being a "mountain town" (which is funny, as it's really a "valley town," which means much more unpleasant summer weather than what I think of as a true "mountain town," which is "up in the mountains"), with "beautiful, natural, scenery," etc. The scenery along the Greenway through the major part of the city - from the part that loops by outside of Grandin up a bit past Roanoke Memorial - is decidedly urban IMO. Railyards, highway underpasses, abandoned buildings. Sewer line runs right under it in a lot of places. A lot of it lacks good tree cover / shade. I found it too unpleasant to walk any time other than earliest morning or evening through most of the hot, humid summer. I do think some things could be done to make it better - better policies to reduce and address litter, maybe more tree plantings, maybe fewer playgrounds and a manicured park or two. But, again, my point wasn't that I think the Greenway is some atrocity that needs to be shut down. It's that it's not a reason anyone should move to Roanoke, and there are so many things in Roanoke that I wish got more attention.

Originally Posted by Veneficus

As for the city being a magnet for the homeless and such, that is indisputable. Shuttering the Rescue Mission would stop localities from literally dumping their problems on the city and allow Southeast a fighting chance; as it is it will forever remain the victim of NIMBYism and deluded do gooders blind to the damage their actions cause so they can pat themselves on the back.

The funny thing is that the Rescue Mission does NOT have a good reputation among a lot of "do gooders" - namely, the people who work in professional social services. Its substance abuse recovery program offers the only long-term residential option in the area for people with low to no income, but it requires such a significant commitment that few people who come in to community mental health even consider it as an option. It is also hard to take seriously as the Rescue Mission does little to address the significant number of residents who use substances on or near Rescue Mission property. The policy of making people leave during the day puts a burden on local libraries and all nearby areas, homes, and businesses. What mental health services are offered there are extremely limited. I personally think the RM is a perfect example of the unhealthy dynamic by which someone feels good by "helping" someone who is dependent but "helps" them in a way that keeps them in a state of dependency so they can continue to "help."

Originally Posted by badger74

Very few small cities can claim dynamic non tourism or college based economies.

Originally Posted by scott1094

I believe the lack of any substantial higher education hurts Roanoke more than anything else. If young professionals have no educational reason to be in the area in the first place, there is little incentive bringing them here after graduation.

Yes. I think that having a university or college dramatically improves quality of life anywhere, especially in a smaller city. It creates diverse jobs; a focal point for local pride; and discourages the anti-intellectualism that can otherwise creep into smaller cities. I know very little about Roanoke College but what I do know is that it is neither large nor dynamic enough to have any significant impact on the surrounding community as far as jobs, arts, intellectual activities, etc.

I'm moving to Madison, WI, where the university and a growing tech sector, as well as state government, generate a lot of jobs. The city is vibrant with intellectual energy and progressive ideas, but also retains a slower, more amiable density and pace of life than larger cities nearby (we chose it over the Twin Cities because neither one of us wanted to live in a city that large again). Boulder, CO, is another example of a small city with a vibrant and progressive culture and an active intellectual and cultural life. The closest example I can think of in the Southeast would be Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill, NC. Booming tech, a large and impressive university, active arts culture. I don't know about Asheville--from my research, the job market there isn't great, and cost-of-living vs. wage and jobs was pretty bad. But that was when I was looking a few years ago.

Originally Posted by AmyKareena

Do you know if the UU disagreement has been mended? I was looking forward to attending that congregation. I don't go often currently because the nearest UU is about an hour drive.

I am excited to hear about the cycling too! Thanks for your post.

Hi Amy. I haven't kept up with the UU church locally, but it may be that you would never know there had been a conflict. It may still be raging. I don't know if they've found a more permanent minister yet; last I knew, they were still having an "interim minister" and were "in search." I think the UU community is needed in Roanoke and I am hopeful that things are better now and will continue to improve.

I have vented about my frustrations with Roanoke but I should emphasize my point that I might have done better here if my interests and aspirations were more in line with what Roanoke offers. There is a GREAT cycling culture here. Fair number of bike lanes, and a casual cyclist could make great use of the Greenway to zip from the Roanoke Memorial area to Grandin and back without having to deal with car traffic at all. Hardcore cyclists can get involved with a lot of group rides on awesome nearby roads. There are many opportunities for mountain biking and hiking in the surrounding area too. As far as the latter, one of the most scenic spots on the entire Appalachian Trail is nearby.

[RVAbornandbred]

NomadStephanie,

Again, I thank you for such heartfelt and thoughtful observations. Madison is a great town, and I hope you find happiness there.

One request I would make: After you have lived in Madison for a year, I would be interested to see you post a comparison of Madison v. Roanoke. That would be quite interesting.

[Mountain Living]

Last summer I met a gal from Madison while vacationing in Canada and she had a favorable impression of Roanoke as well.
Apparently Roanoke is moving up on the radar screen. Yes, Madison is very nice I have learned. I hope you enjoy Madison!!

[badger74]

I attended UW Madison back in the day and it certainly was unique and a great college town--actually close to an ideal college town. Right now the politics are a bit divisive between liberal Madison and the now conservative state government. I think there is a lot of tension and if you take politics seriously it can be quite depressing for some. But there is more to do than in Roanoke or Lynchburg--only the cold weather and higher COL took it off my list for retirement. I still go back to visit in the Fall for a little big-time football and maybe a race at Road America--a truly awesome road racetrack an hour from Madison.