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I have lived in Montana all my life. It has some very positive benefits, very low population density, long way from major urban areas, wildlife, beautiful summers, but....
Montana is a huge state, the 4th largest in the nation and we have several climates. Most folks who think of Montana think of the commercials for Glacier Park, or tour magazines showing the Bitterroot and Mission Valleys west of the continetal divide. High glacier carved mountains blanketed with fir and pine trees, the tamaracks whose needles turn orange in the fall and are shed like leaves. The pristine creeks, rivers and lakes, or Yellowstone with the geothermal hot springs, wide open valleys surrounded by the Absorkee Beartooth wilderness.
Skiing, snowmobiling, boating on the lakes, multiple varieties of fish, the American Serengetti with wildlife and game animals all around.
OK, Most of that is true, however, living here is far different from a vacation.
Montana has less than 1,000,000 people in population, so help or neighbors can be a long way away. Most of the population is in the western 1/3 of the state where the water, most of the mountains and the scenery is. Jobs are few and far between and Montana leads the nation in people who work 2 or more jobs just to survive as wages are extremely low.
Land prices are outragous at best. I recently saw a listing for an excellent piece of land near Bozeman that was listed for nearly 30k per acre for a 65 acre piece. No house.
If Montana didn't have such severe weather and no jobs, we would have been populated like california years ago. As it is, very few people can stay here on a year round basis.
There is a lot of the land that is not arible. In some areas the alkali poisons crops, in others the bedrock is just a couple inches under the surface. Water can be problematic. In some areas of the eastern part of the state, surface water isn't potable due to alkali or metals, wells have to be deep. I know of several wells dug to 12-1500 feet to just reach water, then you need some way to purify it or you still can't drink it.
Other areas, water is non existant and you have to haul water to fill your cisterns.
On the plains, there is no wood for fuel so you need to think of some other way for heat.
Our growing seasons are very short with frosts sometimes coming as late as early June, and snows starting in September. We can and have gotten snow every month of the year. In 1991, Great Falls had the largest single snowfall of the year in August, and that was about a 2 foot storm.
Sever weather is always a problem. Winds of 60mph plus for several days are not uncommon in some areas, at other times it really blows hard.
Most of the state gets snow in feet, not inches and it can lay from October to May.
The tempuratures can range from over 100 to a recorded -68 degrees F. (add a wind chill from a 30 mph wind and that is chilly).
We can have temperature swings of 80 degrees in a few hours.
We can get torrential rains that flash flood or raise the streams and flood causing erosion. My great Grandfather had a small farm on the Yellowstone River that during one flood he lost 50 acres that went downstream with the flood water. Soil was washed away to the gravel. Useless.
We get flooding nearly every spring when the snow melts too.
Much of the state is very dry, high desert with less than 20 inches of moisture in any form per year.
This means that the carrying capacity of the land isn't as high as the midwest for instance. If you can raise a cow/calf pair on 3 acres in Ohio, in eastern Montana expect to have to have at least 40 acres unless you can irrigate the pasture.
Secondly, you will need at least 4 to 6 tons of hay per animal unit to feed them through the winter.
We don't have the bugs that most areas have because of the cold, but in some areas like the Milk River, the mosquitos are so thick they look like smoke rising in the evening, like the river is burning.
At the present time we have an infestation of Pine Beetles decimating the forests, killing the trees and making the forest one huge tinder box just waiting for one of the wildfires we get nearly every summer that burn thousands of acres of timber. We can get fires that burn areas as large as some of the smaller states such as Delaware.
And finally, the wildlife. If you try to raise livestock, we have Black Bears, Grizzly bears, Cougars or Mountain Lions, Lynx, Bobcat, Coyote, and worst of all, Canadian Grey wolves introduced here in the 1990s. Recorded instances of wolves killing over 100 sheep in a single night have happened.
You better be a good veterinarian to raise livestock here because animal's feet and ears will freeze, delivering calves or piglets in a blizzard with subzero windchills, knowing how to sew your stock back together after it has been run through a fence by a preditor, or sewing them back together if they survive the attack.
You need to know what to vaccinate for, how to doctor several diseases, and basically keep your stock alive until you sell or eat it.
Living here in the case of a societal meltdown would be better than some areas, but the reality is that living here now can be an exercise in survival.
There are positive things here too, but this thread is about looking for a place that promotes living off the land. Many places in Montana have very fertile soil, but you will have to pay big bucks for it.
The land here doesn't promote survival, it tests it. You have to fight to wrest a living from it every day.
There are far better more welcoming places to homestead.
Just my 2 cents.
Good post. From what I've seen and read, I think your picture is pretty accurate.
One thing I don't really agree with is the "less than 20 inches of rainfall" and "desert" being in the same sentence. Lord, around here, 20 inches of rainfall would make a garden of Eden! Technically, a desert is less than 10 inches precip average per year. In my area, we are right on the border between being a desert and "semi-arid steppe." A few miles west and the rainfall is as low as 5 inches per year. Now THAT is desert!
While I'm on this thread again, let me say a bit about Utah and it's suitability for SHTF times. Utah is obviously dry in most areas, yet in the mountains, there are areas with up to about 33 inches of annual precip. For the most part, though it's desert and semi-arid steppe. The traditional culture here is very "into" being prepared for hard times. There are lots of stores and websites based here that sell bulk foods and survival supplies. However, I don't see the area I'm in right now as a good area to be in a SHTF situation. There are simply too many people for the local natural resources to sustain. Also, it's heavily Californitized and new regulations/taxes are popping up in the urban areas constantly.
Having said that, if you have some sort of income that is location independent, there are remote areas of Utah that could work. You would need to understand the desert climate and how to work with it in order to make any agricultural pursuit work--but it is doable. It was done for over 100 years by the original mormon settlers. I've been studying rainwater harvesting techniques a lot lately--that could work well in this area if implemented correctly.
But you HAVE to get away from the mushrooming Wasatch Front area and any nearby area that has become weekend-getaway-cabin-cities and blighted a good portion of the state. My opinion is that if you even wanted to consider Utah and you have an aversion to the "burbs," you're going to want to look at the far west/northwest deserts, the central area of the state in the Price area (not in the town, but the valleys and ranges south of it), or the extreme southeast corner of the state near Monticello UT/Cortez CO.
But overall, it's just too urbanized for my tastes and every weekend nearly the entire rest of the state (beyond the cities) becomes urbanized as the city folks head to the "sticks" to "get away from it all." There are very few truly remote, rural areas left that actually ARE, because of the weekend urban migrations. If you are interested in the area (and to be fair, there are many beautiful areas in the state), you'll want to steer clear of the Wasatch Front area (Brigham City, Logan, Ogden, SLC, Orem, Provo, and any of the interlaced smaller cities), Moab area, and the ST George area. Stay away from all the National Parks. Stay away from the "cabin cities" in the mountains. Stay away from the resorts (Park City, etc). Stay away from the interstate highway corridors. Most of northern Utah will be off limits, as well.
Sounds pretty bleak, huh? I have found a couple of places in the state that I'd actually tolerate. Even those are not truly rural in the classic sense of the word--more like small towns. Bottom line is the "Wasatch Hoard" has spread in one way or another to nearly every nook and cranny of the state, and at the very least, made property prices ridiculous on any even half-way arable farm land with water. We have this sort of odd phenomenon around here where, on paper, most of the state is very lightly populated, which would be great... but the heavily populated areas spill over nearly the entire state in the form of campers, hikers, bikers, skiers, ATVers, RVers, tourists, etc, nearly year around.
Silvertips has it made..... Other than no maple sugar, he does anyway. Lives the life, I do too, but have less resources. He and I went thru that a year or so ago.
SC Granny you are a breath of fresh air. Chrisc has been here longer than me, and I sort of consider this is his CD room, and he lets me play.
I agree, each one, will have an idea on what and where to be, that will never match another's style. I can do cave man any day I want, some days I want that more than others.
Me: I can gather wild plants, make my own sugar, some how get 60 miles to the sea for salt if I have to, and do well right where I am. I get the choice to be generouse or not, depending on who and what I am dealing with. I can be a best friend or a worst nightmare, but that all depends.
I am a good giver and a bad taker, but won't deal with takers a bit.
Silvertips has it made..... Other than no maple sugar, he does anyway. Lives the life, I do too, but have less resources. He and I went thru that a year or so ago.
SC Granny you are a breath of fresh air. Chrisc has been here longer than me, and I sort of consider this is his CD room, and he lets me play.
I agree, each one, will have an idea on what and where to be, that will never match another's style. I can do cave man any day I want, some days I want that more than others.
Me: I can gather wild plants, make my own sugar, some how get 60 miles to the sea for salt if I have to, and do well right where I am. I get the choice to be generouse or not, depending on who and what I am dealing with. I can be a best friend or a worst nightmare, but that all depends.
I am a good giver and a bad taker, but won't deal with takers a bit.
As far as practical knowledge, I think you take the gold medal on this forum. Your hard-core survival knowledge and experience is head-and-shoulders above most all the rest of us here, I do believe. You actually DO--me... well I sorta try to do, try to learn, try to work toward the end goal, and get all passionate about this stuff. I think you are more level-headed about the whole thing. I tend to let the "philosophy" of the matter run away with me at times. You just do it.
ChrisC, Lots of hardships and lots more practice. The freedom is great. If you want a taste, make a fire with a bow drill, untill you have it mastered. I do that anytime I want in 120 seconds flat. I can never be with out fire. That is a first freedom.
Another is the abilty to find free food. I can't do that anywhere, but I can do it anywhere in the 3 northern NE states, and in most of eastern Canada. All plants or trees.
Another is the ability to make articals of clothing from head to toe. I might look out of current fashion, but I will have the shelter of clothing, and mocs on my feet.
Right now is a great time to find new Spring plants. Some I find will no doubt end up in the freezer.
I get nuts for fiddlehead ferns in mid December. Of course they are long past then. Maybe you have milkweeds, maybe you have cat tails, go see......
Last year even with the garden making lettuce and assorted other leafy plants i still had dandilion and plaintain weeds as salads, Even ate the radish tops. They are teasey like eating a cats tongue, and that takes a little getting used too.
[quote=ChrisC;19056133]Good post. From what I've seen and read, I think your picture is pretty accurate.
One thing I don't really agree with is the "less than 20 inches of rainfall" and "desert" being in the same sentence. Lord, around here, 20 inches of rainfall would make a garden of Eden! Technically, a desert is less than 10 inches precip average per year. In my area, we are right on the border between being a desert and "semi-arid steppe." A few miles west and the rainfall is as low as 5 inches per year. Now THAT is desert!
Hey Chris C, Thanks for your comment.
I could have said "less than 20 inches of precipitation" instead of moisture, because you can get 2 feet of snow here easily in one snowfall, but have less than 1/2 inch of actual water in it. We have a lot of dry powder snow, and once the snow has been blown by the wind for a while, there isn't a lot of actual moisture left in it.
We don't have sand dune deserts like Utah, but some areas sure feel like it.
We get most of our annual precipitation during the winter in the form of ice, and when it melts off the ground is still frozen so the water can't actually soak into the ground, but runs off to flood areas downstream.(Sorry Memphis).
Our snowpack this year is in excess of 160% of normal and there is still snow lying as low as 4000 feet in elevation, which for a lot of Montana is low.
This past weekend saw snow down to about 5000 feet, the mountains are pretty white this morning.
Our highs have been in the 50s this month so far, and down to 30-31 at night so no planting yet.
The farmers plant a lot of winter wheat here because the fields are mud pits in the spring that you can bury a tractor in. A lot of the eastern 2/3rds of the state is comprised of what we call "Gumbo", a clay/sand schist soil that is very slick if really wet, and like glue if not as soaked. I have seen gumbo pack into wheelwells on 4 wheel drives so hard the vehicle can't turn it's tires and is effectively stopped until you dig the stuff out.
A lot of Montana is tied up in vertical land you can't stand on as it is too steep, but I see people cutting into the hillsides and putting houses there anyway. Of course some of the houses slide downhill, but the view is great for a little while.
I love Montana, I have been all over the world and can't see myself living anywhere else, but my basic premise was to try and help folks who have been moving here thinking it is a wilderness paradise they can set up a cabin, buy a milk cow, raise a garden and survive a homesteader lifestyle if TSHTF. Be prepared, you can survive if you are tough or lucky enough, most folks don't have the background or experience to handle what this state dishes out.
Please look more closely, it can be very hard out here for a small holder.
There are abandoned homesteads from the 1800's and the 1930s all over the place. The land they lived on hasn't changed.
We have two neighbors nearby that are both off-grid [one North of us and one South], both of them have windmills and solar. Speaking with them, they both hate their windmills.
We live in a forest. Trees break up the flow of wind. Even with a windmill up at tree top level, the effect is to slow down the wind. Their windmills only spin during storms, and then they shutdown when they spin too fast. The result being that windmills here only produce power a few days each month.
Solar panels make power nearly everyday of the year.
Now if you were in an area where you got a lot of over-cast skies, then it could be an issue.
In the winter, most snow storms here last one day. And they occur once a week, which gives you the other six days of clear skies sun-shine.
Now if you were up North where it gets really cold it might be different. But here in central Maine, solar seems to be the best way to go.
I do like hydroelectric, and I do have creeks that flow across my land. But they freeze in the winter. So hydroelectric here is seasonal.
What do they use with solar panels? are they set up with battery banks and low voltage lights/appliances? Or do they use inverters and convert to AC?
I think many people will have to make do wherever they are. A lot of people have no real savings and economically are tied to where they now live.
I am on the edge of a large city, truly not the best place to be if things collapsed for any period of time. Good thing is, we are a fairly stable neighborhood and could defend ourselves against looters if need be. I need to get back to gardening, as I used to do. Growing one's food, or part of it, is a good 1st step. It helps a person focus on what could happen & how to deal with it.
Those thinking of moving to rural or wilderness areas should do it now and get established there. Moving there in a calamity, people already there likely would not welcome a newcomer. Changing a lifestyle would be much easier during "normal" times that when TSHTF and it is forced on you.
... are they set up with battery banks and low voltage lights/appliances?
Battery banks yes.
Otherwise they are strictly 120vac.
Quote:
... Or do they use inverters and convert to AC?
Yes.
We are looking at going 12vdc for some of the circuits in our home. But some things [like our well] will require 120/240vac.
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