Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education > Teaching
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-10-2018, 03:56 AM
 
Location: interior Alaska
6,895 posts, read 5,917,524 times
Reputation: 23425

Advertisements

Breaking contract is one of the cardinal sins of the education world - have you already submitted a letter of resignation? If not, I would strongly recommend finishing the school year, but giving official notice that you don't intend to seek contract renewal. That way you'll be leaving on professional terms with HR if not with your admins, and you may be able to sidestep having a non-renewal recommendation in your employment record.

It sounds like you're making the right decision to get out of the classroom, but you are still potentially able to make use of your degree and experience. There are many education-related jobs that don't involve working with students. For example, textbook and curriculum material publishers and educational software like to hire former teachers for a variety of roles, such as presenting their materials to adopters and at conferences, or providing technical support, proofreading and compiling materials, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-10-2018, 05:42 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,141 posts, read 16,274,128 times
Reputation: 28408
Quote:
Originally Posted by krmb View Post
I think I'm finally agreeing with all of you.

I don't remember if I mentioned it in this thread and didn't go back to read it, but I was nearly fired from that good Texas school in which I was working. This time I just couldn't bring myself to ask my coworkers for more help and decided it might be best to just try to figure it out on my own, rather than call more attention to my deficits. Well, that didn't work, and to add insult to injury, the teacher the principal apparently sent to mentor me is now kind of mocking me, or at least that's how I'm perceiving it. I guess she thinks I deserve it, and I'm not going to try to explain that I didn't understand what she was telling me to do, and I was too afraid to ask for clarification because I had this nearly irrational fear that I was "bothering" her and other coworkers and just didn't want to make myself a nuisance. I doubt she would believe it, anyway. My assumption would be a master teacher who has figured out the formula probably sees a struggling teacher like me as an insult, especially when she, in her perception, tried "everything she could" to help me. All I need to do is survive here another month and a few weeks. I've already put in my letter of resignation, but I'm not sure how I'm going to leave this place in good standing.

Not only have they made it very clear that they don't want me to work for them (the principal told me she was voting to not renew my contract), but they have another teacher teaching my classes while I just sort of sit in the corner. That sounds familiar, doesn't it? I feel so inept and powerless. I haven't done any of the work I would normally do as a classroom teacher, because the responsibility of instruction has been turned over to the other teacher. I usually just sit and grade papers. I feel like the kids have lost respect for me, too, and, well, this is just humiliating. I've attempted to leave uncomfortable situations to save face before, and it didn't really work, so I think I'll at least try to finish my contract.

I really would like to have a talk with my principal and explain to her how this is making me feel, though. I'm just afraid she'll fire me after all of this, though. I explained that I had ASD, but apparently she expected for me to have gotten accommodations for it before applying for this job.

I wonder If hiring an attorney would help straighten all of this out. I wonder if I could even afford one.


Yes, I do feel like feeling sorry for myself and saying that no one will help the poor autistic woman, but that's life, I guess.
Don’t talk to her, write her a letter. I suspect you communicate far better in a written format than orally. That is probably part of the autism, and you can explain that in the letter. Just make sure you run it past a couple of people you trust, preferably nonjudgemental ones, and it would be helpful if at least one person had experience working as an educator in a K-12 setting, before you give it to her. We have a number of retired teachers and administrators on this board who might be willing to help you with this, if you asked. We also have current ones but the retired ones probably have more time.

She does actually have to give you reasonable accommodations, no matter how late in the game you inform her, starting when you informed her of the disability. The law does not require you disclose a disability, but the employer is not responsible to make any accommodations for you until you do so. I suspect you finally being honest about your disability was the impetus for placing a second teacher in there but keeping you on the payroll. Unfortunately, your disability impedes you from doing a number of crucial functions of your job, which means the accommodations you would need are not going to be reasonable. Rather than letting you go now they are choosing the path of least resistance, carrying you as an extra person until your contract ends. Hiring a lawyer will do nothing for you, at this point, other than cost you money. They have tried to treat you fairly, even if some of it feels hurtful.

The real question for the rest of this year is what can be done so everyone feels a little more positive about the situation. You need something productive to do, both for your own sake and the school’s. There are plenty of things around the school you are more than capable of doing that would make other teachers’ or employees’ jobs less burdensome. If the second person placed in your classroom is certified or an authorized long term sub there are different options than if they are just an aide.
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Diabetes and Kentucky (including Lexington & Louisville)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-10-2018, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
51,437 posts, read 24,792,183 times
Reputation: 33292
Jeeeeeeeeeez.

It's an unworkable situation.

Get out.

Put it behind you.

Get over it.

Find a different type of work situation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-10-2018, 05:50 PM
 
6,292 posts, read 10,655,935 times
Reputation: 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by krmb View Post
I agree with you. I'm living and working in Texas now, though, so wouldn't I need a Texas autism society? I've already contacted DARS, and I'm seeing a counselor who specializes in autism.

I'm also maybe perceiving things a little differently, too. I don't know if asking to help the other teacher in my room rather than just ignoring her would accomplish anything productive. I think I was told more or less to stay out of her way, and I didn't want to get permission from someone to do things in my own classroom, but maybe it would at least leave my co-teacher with a good impression of me. I just hate being humiliated. Don't my coworkers understand that ignoring me when I greet them and talking to me like one of the wayward students makes me feel bad, not to mention odd and uncomfortable? I really didn't need any more self-esteem destroying moments; believe me, I've had enough of them, and my mentor teacher started off so nice!

I also really wish I could do something to at least leave in good standing. I chose to resign. I didn't wait for the results of the principal's vote to non-renew my contract; the very real threat of it was enough for me, but I'm failing to understand how I can make this into a positive experience on a resume. I guess I'll just follow what I see and see if I can leave in good standing. This situation is hard to explain, and I feel like I need medically documented proof of everything and can't just tell my boss things like, "well, the reason I don't stand at the door to greet the students is because I lose track of time and think getting the students inside started on a task is more productive." There are "common sense" things I could do, like ask my co-teacher what duties I can perform that won't get in her way. I mean, I've been humiliated enough, really, getting embarrassed by being denied the right to perform one of my classroom duties wouldn't be that jarring.

Sorry, instead of rambling, I guess I should have just asked. If you were in my situation, what do you think you could do to ensure that you leave the school in good standing? I think at this point my principal may have a conflict of interest, but I have disclosed that I have a disability, and the frustrating part of all of it is that I honestly think that if I would have had better more open and honest feedback I could have succeeded here. I was afraid of what my boss and coworkers might do if they discovered my deficits, though.
The only easy way to explain it would be to move to a different state. They when asked why you resigned you could say you had to move to another state for X, Y, Z reasons.

I would 100% help out as much as I could. Make sure you’re walking the room when the other teacher is teaching and prompting students to task, and quietly helping them if they need it. If you see someone is struggling, let the other teacher know at a time when the students aren’t there and offer to pull them one on one to work on a skill. Basically be a TA. You need to show you can handle responsibilities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-10-2018, 08:19 PM
 
4,366 posts, read 4,604,381 times
Reputation: 2957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
The only easy way to explain it would be to move to a different state. They when asked why you resigned you could say you had to move to another state for X, Y, Z reasons.

I would 100% help out as much as I could. Make sure you’re walking the room when the other teacher is teaching and prompting students to task, and quietly helping them if they need it. If you see someone is struggling, let the other teacher know at a time when the students aren’t there and offer to pull them one on one to work on a skill. Basically be a TA. You need to show you can handle responsibilities.

Leave the state, again? Couldn't I just apply in another county? I know that principals sometimes talk to each other, but if I could leave in good standing, it might be enough to maybe get a job in another county, right? I just moved to Texas almost a year ago. I don't want to leave now. I guess I could if I had to, but wouldn't going to a larger city, like San Antonio or Austin do the trick? It's possible the principals communicate, but something similar happened at the school I worked at in Alabama, and I was able to not only leave in good standing but also ask for a letter of recommendation to this current job. I won't shy away from hard work, and I'll try to prove myself dependable, but it's the communication issue that usually hurts me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2018, 05:31 AM
 
4,366 posts, read 4,604,381 times
Reputation: 2957
I'm a little worried about my future job prospects. Teaching in the inner-city schools might not work out so well, because I just don't have the soft skills to be someone who is well liked. I would love to learn this, but it's very difficult. I can compensate a little with a good script, but with teaching, we are often not only required to be the masons but to also make the bricks. I can't really write my own scripts. I know there are lots of resources to help compensate for this, but seeing as there is another teacher teaching my classes right now at a good school, my confidence is very low.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2018, 05:34 AM
 
16,824 posts, read 17,820,466 times
Reputation: 20853
Quote:
Originally Posted by krmb View Post
I'm a little worried about my future job prospects. Teaching in the inner-city schools might not work out so well, because I just don't have the soft skills to be someone who is well liked. I would love to learn this, but it's very difficult. I can compensate a little with a good script, but with teaching, we are often not only required to be the masons but to also make the bricks. I can't really write my own scripts. I know there are lots of resources to help compensate for this, but seeing as there is another teacher teaching my classes right now at a good school, my confidence is very low.
I thought you were ready to switch to another career?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2018, 06:32 AM
 
Location: So Ca
26,936 posts, read 27,145,182 times
Reputation: 25095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Don’t talk to her, write her a letter. I suspect you communicate far better in a written format than orally. That is probably part of the autism, and you can explain that in the letter. Just make sure you run it past a couple of people you trust, preferably nonjudgemental ones, and it would be helpful if at least one person had experience working as an educator in a K-12 setting, before you give it to her. We have a number of retired teachers and administrators on this board who might be willing to help you with this, if you asked.
Great advice.

Quote:
She does actually have to give you reasonable accommodations, no matter how late in the game you inform her, starting when you informed her of the disability. The law does not require you disclose a disability, but the employer is not responsible to make any accommodations for you until you do so. I suspect you finally being honest about your disability was the impetus for placing a second teacher in there but keeping you on the payroll. Unfortunately, your disability impedes you from doing a number of crucial functions of your job, which means the accommodations you would need are not going to be reasonable. Rather than letting you go now they are choosing the path of least resistance, carrying you as an extra person until your contract ends.

Hiring a lawyer will do nothing for you, at this point, other than cost you money.
Absolutely. And the OP doesn't need to deal with legal stress right now.

Quote:
The real question for the rest of this year is what can be done so everyone feels a little more positive about the situation. You need something productive to do, both for your own sake and the school’s. There are plenty of things around the school you are more than capable of doing that would make other teachers’ or employees’ jobs less burdensome. If the second person placed in your classroom is certified or an authorized long term sub there are different options than if they are just an aide.
The person would have to be certified, wouldn't they, to be teaching the class?

And I don't think, as someone else suggested, that the OP should move to another state. That would cause far too much stress for her right now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2018, 08:40 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,791 posts, read 61,187,267 times
Reputation: 61552
Quote:
Originally Posted by krmb View Post
Leave the state, again? Couldn't I just apply in another county? I know that principals sometimes talk to each other, but if I could leave in good standing, it might be enough to maybe get a job in another county, right? I just moved to Texas almost a year ago. I don't want to leave now. I guess I could if I had to, but wouldn't going to a larger city, like San Antonio or Austin do the trick? It's possible the principals communicate, but something similar happened at the school I worked at in Alabama, and I was able to not only leave in good standing but also ask for a letter of recommendation to this current job. I won't shy away from hard work, and I'll try to prove myself dependable, but it's the communication issue that usually hurts me.
This is going to come off as mean and it's not meant to be.

Do not move to another district to teach. You would get chewed up and spit out in a few days in an inner city/challenging school. Those kids take no prisoners and I believe, and you said it, that you don't have the so called soft skills to manage them.

You have tried teaching in multiple venues and have been less than successful. The one that sticks out, and the one I personally thought you might have a chance at, was in the facility where you weren't "teaching" but monitoring progress of multiple students at multiple levels doing preplugged lessons on the computer. Even then you didn't quite get that you weren't teaching per se, as in developing lessons, but monitoring progress. Yet you insisted on trying to do traditional teaching there and ran into all sorts of problems especially with discipline. Refer back to my earlier comment about inner city/challenging schools.

I wish you the best, of course, and have to say that a job reviewing/developing curriculum or tests (think Pearson Education) might be a better fit for you. Also, maybe working in training for some agency developing lessons for other employees and even presenting those lessons. One of my colleagues retired and went to work for the county Health Department developing lessons and presenting them to other employees and residents (one I remember because we joked about it was for Colon-Rectal Cancer outreach).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-11-2018, 08:52 AM
 
51,476 posts, read 37,142,589 times
Reputation: 77195
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
This is going to come off as mean and it's not meant to be.

Do not move to another district to teach. You would get chewed up and spit out in a few days in an inner city/challenging school. Those kids take no prisoners and I believe, and you said it, that you don't have the so called soft skills to manage them.

You have tried teaching in multiple venues and have been less than successful. The one that sticks out, and the one I personally thought you might have a chance at, was in the facility where you weren't "teaching" but monitoring progress of multiple students at multiple levels doing preplugged lessons on the computer. Even then you didn't quite get that you weren't teaching per se, as in developing lessons, but monitoring progress. Yet you insisted on trying to do traditional teaching there and ran into all sorts of problems especially with discipline. Refer back to my earlier comment about inner city/challenging schools.

I wish you the best, of course, and have to say that a job reviewing/developing curriculum or tests (think Pearson Education) might be a better fit for you. Also, maybe working in training for some agency developing lessons for other employees and even presenting those lessons. One of my colleagues retired and went to work for the county Health Department developing lessons and presenting them to other employees and residents (one I remember because we joked about it was for Colon-Rectal Cancer outreach).
I agree with most of your post, but I disagree OP was not supposed to be teaching those kids. Yes they had computerized lessons, but they still require a teacher to understand concepts, no one expects an 11 year old to learn Algebra purely from a computer program, especially kids who may be barely literate in many cases.

They needed one to one instruction. One of their frequent complaints about OP if you recall, was that she wasn't a "real" teacher like their last teacher was.

OP did not know how to relate one to one with them that way. OP didn't even know these kids strong and weak areas and where they needed help, and seemed consumed with only their behavior and whether they were in strict adherence to the "rules" of classroom behavior. OP wants to stand in front of the room and read a script to a class full of ramrod straight pupils who never talk out of turn or make jokes or put their heads on their desks. That is what she thought she would get as a teacher, scripts for presenting lessons. OP wanted to teach whole class group lessons despite having a wide variety of ages and skill levels.

I do agree that was her best chance, but really OP needs structure, lots and lots of structure, and I can't imagine any teaching area where she can get that. I do agree there are "behind the scenes" positions she may do better at, although we also have to remember OP also has great difficulty organizing, lost track of student papers, and admits she misses details, so that has to be considered with some of these positions as well.

Remember OP does not know how to make classroom lessons, she kept seeking a template that she could simply copy. She needs something with very defined structure that she can follow, and that won't be the case in employee training either, and presenting anything without a script is going to be difficult for her. As soon as someone asks a question that is not in her script, she will flounder.

I really think OP should not make one single career decision ever again without Autism-specific aptitude testing first.

Last edited by ocnjgirl; 04-11-2018 at 09:07 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education > Teaching
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:36 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top