Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education > Teaching
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-16-2023, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,770 posts, read 24,270,853 times
Reputation: 32913

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by history nerd View Post
There is a difference between education professionals curating content to meet the developmental needs of their students and political entities attempting to control access to media.

I also think it's important for students, by the time they are in highschool, to begin to have access to a variety of educational materials representing a wide range of experiences and viewpoints outside of the home and of the control of their parents.
the key question being what is "educational", and what does the school need to provide, versus what is available outside of school
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-16-2023, 04:15 PM
 
1,412 posts, read 1,082,116 times
Reputation: 2953
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
the key question being what is "educational", and what does the school need to provide, versus what is available outside of school
No. The real question is who gets to answer your question and why.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2023, 04:36 PM
 
4,382 posts, read 4,231,916 times
Reputation: 5859
As a child, I quickly outgrew the children's section of the library. My parents also had an extensive library, and they never censored my reading. So my opinions are based to a great extent on my own experience.

As a teacher, one of the threads in the national French standards is comparisons of cultural products and practices. That leaves a wide space for discussions of how people live in various parts of the world. The AP French curriculum takes a broad view of culture and the topics that teachers are to cover up to and through that level of the language.

Over the course of teaching students for multiple years, one develops a sense of what interests or appeals to a particular student. Whenever the topic of book bans arises, I think about one young man with whom I had had a conversation about books. I mentioned to him how I had tried to read 1984 and A Clockwork Orange when I was 11, but was too young to understand them, so I came back to them when I was older. This was a student who had a kind of twisted personality that he had revealed over the three years that he was in my class. He ended up choosing A Clockwork Orange for his book fair project, a choice that I met with shock and an admonition to keep under wraps his pathway to that book. In fact, this was a brilliant young man who did a full video of Notre Dame de Paris for a project in my class, at a time when video production was still very esoteric. His tri-fold board for the book fair was stunning with the images of the young Alex from the movie. He had the rare mind among high school students who could understand the theme of free will that is removed when one becomes a clockwork orange.

I've often wondered if I should never have shared that title with him because it wasn't age appropriate for the United States. I don't think he would think I made a mistake. Although he never did take me up on the offer to pay cash for reading and discussing 1984 with me, a novel that was required by the gatekeeper to graduation at my own school--the Principles of Democracy teacher, back in the 1970s. The last one that did was back before 2000. A shame. And somewhat Orwellian in an ironic sort of way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-17-2023, 11:33 AM
 
6,800 posts, read 14,021,576 times
Reputation: 5731
Quote:
Originally Posted by history nerd View Post
no. The real question is who gets to answer your question and why.

exactly!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-17-2023, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,770 posts, read 24,270,853 times
Reputation: 32913
Quote:
Originally Posted by history nerd View Post
No. The real question is who gets to answer your question and why.
based on our national education policy, to a degree it is a public decision...which may or may not be good
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-17-2023, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,770 posts, read 24,270,853 times
Reputation: 32913
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
As a child, I quickly outgrew the children's section of the library. My parents also had an extensive library, and they never censored my reading. So my opinions are based to a great extent on my own experience.

As a teacher, one of the threads in the national French standards is comparisons of cultural products and practices. That leaves a wide space for discussions of how people live in various parts of the world. The AP French curriculum takes a broad view of culture and the topics that teachers are to cover up to and through that level of the language.

Over the course of teaching students for multiple years, one develops a sense of what interests or appeals to a particular student. Whenever the topic of book bans arises, I think about one young man with whom I had had a conversation about books. I mentioned to him how I had tried to read 1984 and A Clockwork Orange when I was 11, but was too young to understand them, so I came back to them when I was older. This was a student who had a kind of twisted personality that he had revealed over the three years that he was in my class. He ended up choosing A Clockwork Orange for his book fair project, a choice that I met with shock and an admonition to keep under wraps his pathway to that book. In fact, this was a brilliant young man who did a full video of Notre Dame de Paris for a project in my class, at a time when video production was still very esoteric. His tri-fold board for the book fair was stunning with the images of the young Alex from the movie. He had the rare mind among high school students who could understand the theme of free will that is removed when one becomes a clockwork orange.

I've often wondered if I should never have shared that title with him because it wasn't age appropriate for the United States. I don't think he would think I made a mistake. Although he never did take me up on the offer to pay cash for reading and discussing 1984 with me, a novel that was required by the gatekeeper to graduation at my own school--the Principles of Democracy teacher, back in the 1970s. The last one that did was back before 2000. A shame. And somewhat Orwellian in an ironic sort of way.
I remember how shocked the public school librarian was when I checked out the book "The Swimmning Pool" by Mary Roberts Rinehart. Not exactly for a 12 year old, and she tried to steer me to a different room in the library, but I persisted.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2023, 01:23 PM
 
8,009 posts, read 10,420,386 times
Reputation: 15032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
No one is telling you your kids can’t read it. They are saying it doesn’t belong in a school library. There is a difference.

They are also saying there are books that are not appropriate for a teacher to make required reading. Again, they are not saying your child is forbidden from reading it, just that they can’t be mandated to read it. There is a difference.

We are no longer in a day and age where books are so difficult or cost prohibitive to obtain that they must be in libraries or schools for people to access them. No one has forbidden these books from being published or sold online.

School libraries, whether school wide or classroom, need to be age appropriate for ALL the children that have access to them. Ones that aren’t can be gotten from other sources.
"They are also saying there are books that are not appropriate for a teacher to make required reading. Again, they are not saying your child is forbidden from reading it, just that they can’t be mandated to read it. There is a difference."

- Did you miss the part where I said NONE of the books were required reading for any class, group, or club? None of them.


"We are no longer in a day and age where books are so difficult or cost prohibitive to obtain that they must be in libraries or schools for people to access them. No one has forbidden these books from being published or sold online."

- The ignorance and privilege of this statement is astounding. We live in a day and age where food is so cost prohibitive and difficult to obtain, that school meals are the only ones many kids get. To say everyone has easy access to books is completely ignorant.


"School libraries, whether school wide or classroom, need to be age appropriate for ALL the children that have access to them. Ones that aren’t can be gotten from other sources."

- How many of these books have you actually read? Tell me what part of The Life of Rosa Parks is inappropriate. I've read it, and there is not a single, solitary off color or profane word in the book. Also, actual experts in child development have deemed these books appropriate for certain ages. Just a hunch, but I'm going to guess the people with actual education in these things and who have read the books are better equipped to determine what is appropriate than some mom with a high school diploma who hasn't read a book in 20 years, let alone read the ones that are banned. BTW, parents have always had the right to have the school not allow their kids to check out books.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2023, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,770 posts, read 24,270,853 times
Reputation: 32913
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnivalGal View Post
...

- The ignorance and privilege of this statement is astounding. We live in a day and age where food is so cost prohibitive and difficult to obtain, that school meals are the only ones many kids get. To say everyone has easy access to books is completely ignorant.


...
One study from 5 years ago showed that 95% of teens have access to a smartphone; 45% online ‘almost constantly’.

If they can afford a smart phone, they can afford a library card.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2023, 08:05 AM
 
8,009 posts, read 10,420,386 times
Reputation: 15032
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
One study from 5 years ago showed that 95% of teens have access to a smartphone; 45% online ‘almost constantly’.

If they can afford a smart phone, they can afford a library card.
Having access to a smartphone and owning a smartphone are two different things. People see those numbers and then assume it means every person in the household has a new iPhone 14 with internet access, and that's not the case. A parent may be the only one in the household to have a smart phone. That counts as a teen having access to one. You can get a basic smart phone for $50. Some low income people are eligible for free phones. That doesn't mean everyone in the house has a smart phone.

And public libraries are great. But you also assume everyone can just hop in their car and get to one whenever they want. Access to transportation or reliable transportation is not something everyone has. Cars are expensive. Even if someone has one and can afford to insure, repair, and maintain it, doesn't mean it's just sitting in the driveway. Most low income people work. Many work long hours or more than one job. Public transportation is not available to everyone. Heck, I live in a city of a million people, and I don't have public transportation that services my area.

Anyone who has ever taught in a low income and/or rural area knows this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2023, 08:28 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,055 posts, read 18,231,767 times
Reputation: 34937
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
One study from 5 years ago showed that 95% of teens have access to a smartphone; 45% online ‘almost constantly’.

If they can afford a smart phone, they can afford a library card.
Teens ? You have most middle school kids with cellphones now..pre-teens. There were very few that didn't have them and I was in Title 1 schools.

I think the picture of poor starving school children is a bit overblown by the media.
Library cards are free (at least in all the places I've lived). Just need to show proof of residence.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education > Teaching
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top